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Post by flyingcarpet46 on Jun 14, 2022 16:58:52 GMT
acrobat.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn:aaid:scds:US:37edabe3-d4a9-3d2c-a987-7edc963ada95This is Madness Too: Critical Perspectives on Mental Health Services (Critical Psychology Division S.) 2001. Product Description A companion volume to the best selling 'This is Madness'. At a time when there is an extraordinary energy for change in the world of mental health, 'This is Madness Too' offers a compassionate and scholarly critique of the treatment of children, government policy, the use of anit-depressants and a host of other areas fundamental to mental health services. It brings together the views of service users and professionals in a passionate attempt to tell it as it is. Craig Newnes He has a life time commitment to the NHS and is an outspoken critic of the hypocrisy, self interest, confusion and downright lies which characterise so much of the practise of psychiatry AND (my emphasis)psychology. He believes that unhappiness is a form of heresy and most of the misery for which people seek help is only amenable to alleviation through changes in their material live ** I would add that a founding father of the Clinical Model , William Sargant , also saw misery making people seek help from their doctors but believed that psychiatric treatments could alleviate this misery and enable them to cope with their situations. This led on to a question - if these treatments work are they rectifying some brain dysfunction/deficit? This then became the dominant medical model and focus of research (we could ask why). And it was seen to explain how people with no apparent issues with their circumstances were also suffering/displaing symptoms of ill health wellcomecollection.org/works/mk47a4rdThe unquiet mind : the autobiography of a physician in psychological medicine / William Sargant. Sargant, William Walters. Date 1967
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Post by Admin on Jun 14, 2022 17:21:34 GMT
It's always the biology, psychology, sociology, spirituality debate - & i think things are slowly moving towards an integral model & approach.
We don't know what everything is within each individual case.
How would everyone be without psychiatry & medication & nothing else? i think worse off - highly debatable if alternative approaches would be better?
i don't agree with changing a primary biomedical approach to a primary sociological / Traumagenic one.
i think we need genuinely comprehensive understandings & approaches.
There is so much range as well as to what comes under mental health / illness - it is individual - each persons mind is akin to a rain forest / solar system - & understandings & approaches should be tailored to that fact.
Until we settle the questions of aetiology / nature / prognosis of mental health / illness - it's always going to be dealing with unknown areas.
It is always going to be controversial - there are always going to be all the different groups & camps within mental health areas.
i think the spirituality question is pivotal in relationship to mental health - But how you get 'Atheist scientific materialism' / World religions / 'non religious' spirituality to agree?
How do you get the myriad biology, psychology, sociology, spirituality camps to all agree with each other?
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Post by flyingcarpet46 on Jun 14, 2022 20:52:11 GMT
I don't think we should aim to 'settle' the issues. I think we shouls acknowledge the controversies and where possible 'build bridges' and remain 'openminded'. I don't mean by this that 'everything goes'.
It may be that stronger evidence becomes available showing a high probability that certain genes cause structural dysfunction eg in neurotransmission. You expect that is likely?. I don't. We could examine each other's supporting evidence but we will.most likeky be dealing with probabilities within the constraints of the research design.
We can either look for ways we m8ght combine our differing points of view eg broaden the options in psychiatric provision or just insist that our particular point of view is accepted and prioritised?.Use whatever tactics we have to break down 'the opposition'?
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Post by flyingcarpet46 on Jun 14, 2022 21:43:56 GMT
You think the medical model is best and know people or research which agree. But the survivor movement in the UK arose as a challenge to this and there is plenty of evidence quantative and qualitative, that supports criticism of psychiatric practice . You have said this was your approach once.
You could give examples endlessly of people who are happy with their treatment. And I could give examples of people who have been harmed/arw unhappy with their treatment. It is my view that we must seriously consider - snd respect - criticisms of psychiatry. Not just dismiss them eg by claiming that the 'mentally ill' can't be taken seriously.
And we should be critical of psycholical approaches as well and acknowldge where their are issues with any alternatives on offer.
But our human tendency is to believe that we are the ones who are right in our evaluations/judgements.And so go out to demolish 'thhe opposition' by whatever means.
Re my own life, I think I have fared better , asking questions about human development/problems linked to our environments and spirituality than simply taking psychiatric drugs - though I think there are times when it may have been easier on me and my family if I had taken medication temporarily . Or perhaps not.
I have felt that for me to have accepted a lifetime on mdication would be like entering a cul de sac in my life. But you have reached a different view. Neither witholding support for you nor insisting on treatments for me regardless of eg adverse effects is OK. Advocacy has been accepted in principle except when it comes to compulsion . The authorities' positions on safety do not take into account what is safe in terms of adverse effects of treatment, especially long term ones, on.the paient.
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Post by flyingcarpet46 on Jun 14, 2022 21:45:33 GMT
Agreement. What do we mean demand agreement?
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Post by Admin on Jun 14, 2022 21:50:07 GMT
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Post by Admin on Jun 14, 2022 21:56:57 GMT
Agreement. What do we mean demand agreement? The same arguments / debates / conflicts / ideas appear throughout the entirety of human history, & nothing ever intrinsically changes. With some 3 thousand years of organized dissent with the system - some 500 years of deep conflict with the Capitalist / Imperialist / Colonizers system. The anti / critical / pro / alternative psychiatry - biomedical hard & soft science arguments have been continually rehashed for many decades, if not for hundreds of years. If no one agrees on what the issues / problems are & there is no agreement on potential solutions - all that's left is the mess that we have.
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Post by flyingcarpet46 on Jun 15, 2022 8:55:52 GMT
How do you imagine a place where there is no disagreement?
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Post by Admin on Jun 15, 2022 9:09:08 GMT
How do you imagine a place where there is no disagreement? i'm all for respectful democratic debate & argument - i suppose it's more i feel people should agree more on truth / facts / evidence.
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Post by flyingcarpet46 on Jun 15, 2022 9:30:44 GMT
You and I can't agree on the truth, facts and evidence. Why is that?
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Post by Admin on Jun 15, 2022 9:34:57 GMT
You and I can't agree on the truth, facts and evidence. Why is that? i suppose because knowing the totality of Truth & Reality or just parts of it is hard. We don't have a complete understanding of everything. Mental health touches on some fundamental questions about life.
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Post by Admin on Jun 15, 2022 12:25:27 GMT
You and I can't agree on the truth, facts and evidence. Why is that? i can appreciate that what you individually believe & your World view is true for you - within the Galaxy of your own mind, as it is for everyone else as well. Does that make it 'objectively & categorially' true?
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Post by Admin on Jun 15, 2022 12:29:24 GMT
You and I can't agree on the truth, facts and evidence. Why is that? You think i don't - But i know what your position is - i simply don't entirely agree with it all.
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Post by Admin on Jun 15, 2022 15:46:08 GMT
i see my condition as differential - that i am HSP / Psychic / Empath - that some of my experiences are better understood from the Shamanic / Mystical / Magick.
Not to deny that there is also a severe illness helped by anti psychotic medication.
i suppose it gets complicated with the dominance of the biomedical clinical model & then all the arguments over & between World religions / spirituality with Atheism & Science.
Hard to 'square' it all.
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Post by Admin on Jun 15, 2022 15:47:42 GMT
i see my condition as differential - that i am HSP / Psychic / Empath - that some of my experiences are better understood from the Shamanic / Mystical / Magick. Not to deny that there is also a severe illness helped by anti psychotic medication. i suppose it gets complicated with the dominance of the biomedical clinical model & then all the arguments over & between World religions / spirituality with Atheism & Science. Hard to 'square' it all. i suppose that different people frame & understand their difficulties & experiences differently & that people want different things from psychiatry / the mental health system / society & treatment.
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