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Post by Admin on Sept 1, 2019 19:01:44 GMT
i voted for Brexit to cause a constitutional crisis & to try & fuck up the Government / system. i was Not alone in doing that.
Probably the wrong thing to have done, but that is how i felt at the time with the resentment with Austerity, the Government / system & this country.
The country voted out anyway.
Does it matter anyway with regards to the increasing global ecological / civilisation crisis?
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Post by Admin on Sept 1, 2019 19:34:19 GMT
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Post by snowstorm on Sept 1, 2019 19:51:31 GMT
i voted for Brexit to cause a constitutional crisis & to try & fuck up the Government / system. i was Not alone in doing that. Probably the wrong thing to have done, but that is how i felt at the time with the resentment with Austerity, the Government / system & this country. The country voted out anyway. Does it matter anyway with regards to the increasing global ecological / civilisation crisis? I think the lies told in the campaign mattered, the campaign funding cheating mattered, the effects of austerity on the vote mattered - there's even the problem of the actual referendum question, this blog from the LSE comments it was flawed; blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/05/17/the-brexit-referendum-question-was-flawed-in-its-design/Admin, you voted to leave the EU, but did you vote to leave with no deal whatsoever? The referendum question was wholly inadequate, also I don't remember even one mention by either camp of the potential problems with the Irish border, or the danger to the peace there of having a hard border. Also the idea that new trade deals would be simple to negotiate was talked about - and they are not, they take years and each side wants what they want and will quite obviously fight for it. Saying all that I do think that because we want the 'best' leaving deal, saying the UK will leave without one is a useful negotiation tool, albeit a blunt and risky one. Re. the eco crisis, working together is what will help e.g. research; royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/brexit-uk-science/
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Post by Admin on Sept 1, 2019 21:03:57 GMT
Admin, you voted to leave the EU, but did you vote to leave with no deal whatsoever? i voted leave because of Austerity & to try & fuck up the system. Rightly or wrongly, such was my resentment with this country. Brexit is a terrible idea.
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Post by Admin on Sept 1, 2019 21:16:58 GMT
Terence Mckenna: “The western mind and society is a house of cards, and the people that built that system know that, and that we (the “psychos”, shamans, saddhus, etc.) could, with our gifts, bring that house of cards down!”
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 6:19:27 GMT
“Pity The Nation” Pity the nation whose people are sheep, and whose shepherds mislead them. Pity the nation whose leaders are liars, whose sages are silenced, and whose bigots haunt the airwaves. Pity the nation that raises not its voice, except to praise conquerors and acclaim the bully as hero and aims to rule the world with force and by torture. Pity the nation that knows no other language but its own and no other culture but its own. Pity the nation whose breath is money and sleeps the sleep of the too well fed. Pity the nation — oh, pity the people who allow their rights to erode and their freedoms to be washed away. My country, tears of thee, sweet land of liberty.”
Lawrence Ferlinghetti (after Khalil Gibran).
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Post by Admin on Sept 2, 2019 7:30:30 GMT
i voted for Brexit to cause a constitutional crisis & to try & fuck up the Government / system. i was Not alone in doing that. Probably the wrong thing to have done, but that is how i felt at the time with the resentment with Austerity, the Government / system & this country. The country voted out anyway. Does it matter anyway with regards to the increasing global ecological / civilisation crisis? I think the lies told in the campaign mattered, the campaign funding cheating mattered, the effects of austerity on the vote mattered - there's even the problem of the actual referendum question, this blog from the LSE comments it was flawed; blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/05/17/the-brexit-referendum-question-was-flawed-in-its-design/Admin, you voted to leave the EU, but did you vote to leave with no deal whatsoever? The referendum question was wholly inadequate, also I don't remember even one mention by either camp of the potential problems with the Irish border, or the danger to the peace there of having a hard border. Also the idea that new trade deals would be simple to negotiate was talked about - and they are not, they take years and each side wants what they want and will quite obviously fight for it. Saying all that I do think that because we want the 'best' leaving deal, saying the UK will leave without one is a useful negotiation tool, albeit a blunt and risky one. Re. the eco crisis, working together is what will help e.g. research; royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/brexit-uk-science/We were / are far better off in the EU. The Government should say that the Leave campaign was all based on Lies & we should stay in the EU. But the country voted out & both Leave & Remain Camps are now totally entrenched in their positions. i can see both sides to the argument - & i can see why people take positions across the entire political spectrum. As individuals, what are we meant to do about it all now? Stock up on toilet paper & some tinned food.
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Post by Admin on Sept 2, 2019 7:42:29 GMT
There is one reality - one World - one humanity - sounds a bit Hippieish, but it's true. We should as a species be united & working together on everything. How do 'we' transform this civilisation / World to one of peace & unity? The World is Duality - it is very divided. Some people have / do try & bring it all together & some people have / do try & tear it all apart. & that is the way it is. i'm Not sure why it is all like that? But it is - it is Duality, that is how it is. The World seems to cycle between the 2 poles - coming together more & falling apart more. A lot i think is Divide & Rule - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_ruleBut there does appear to be something a lot deeper going on with it all as well.
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Post by Admin on Sept 2, 2019 8:09:36 GMT
i'm personally very conflicted around mainstream science. i do not agree with scientism / materialism. Science simply has been & is wrong about a number of things & it has had good & bad consequences. Current science is Not a done deal, there is an immense amount that it does Not understand & does Not know. We're in all this Brexit mess - hopefully like the cracking of an egg some good will come out of it all?
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Post by Admin on Sept 3, 2019 18:09:58 GMT
I think the lies told in the campaign mattered, the campaign funding cheating mattered, the effects of austerity on the vote mattered - there's even the problem of the actual referendum question, this blog from the LSE comments it was flawed; blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/05/17/the-brexit-referendum-question-was-flawed-in-its-design/Admin, you voted to leave the EU, but did you vote to leave with no deal whatsoever? The referendum question was wholly inadequate, also I don't remember even one mention by either camp of the potential problems with the Irish border, or the danger to the peace there of having a hard border. Also the idea that new trade deals would be simple to negotiate was talked about - and they are not, they take years and each side wants what they want and will quite obviously fight for it. Saying all that I do think that because we want the 'best' leaving deal, saying the UK will leave without one is a useful negotiation tool, albeit a blunt and risky one. Re. the eco crisis, working together is what will help e.g. research; royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/brexit-uk-science/To come back to all this again - yes Brexit has all been based & lies & corruption. Yes it's a terrible idea. Yes no deal Brexit will be a total disaster. There will be chaos with no deal. What do 'we' do about it all now? What do we do about 'half' the country that seemingly support the Tories / right wing / hard right & who want a no deal, & who see all this as a war with the EU? What do 'we' do about how divided the UK is? Bigger picture i still see it all as i always have done - that this global system is totally unsustainable & headed inexorably to collapse. i'm Not in any position to really do anything about it all.
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Post by snowstorm on Sept 3, 2019 18:55:00 GMT
To come back to all this again - yes Brexit has all been based & lies & corruption. Yes it's a terrible idea. Yes no deal Brexit will be a total disaster. There will be chaos with no deal. What do 'we' do about it all now? What do we do about 'half' the country that seemingly support the Tories / right wing / hard right & who want a no deal, & who see all this as a war with the EU? What do 'we' do about how divided the UK is? Bigger picture i still see it all as i always have done - that this global system is totally unsustainable & headed inexorably to collapse. i'm Not in any position to really do anything about it all. There is a real problem with division - and some left wing supporters want to leave the EU too. However, looking at this set of 73 polls taken over the last 3 years, most of the time since the referendum the support for Remain has been higher than leave - but the indecision and split is still obvious there and in part it must be because it's difficult to weigh up the facts for anyone as new information pops up virtually every week. whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/The v right wing factions seem to do well everywhere that they stoke up immigration fears and the 'let's make this country great again' business - the moderates and left wing have to acknowledge this and have an answer to it e.g. who knows what those trade deals will look like and whether other countries will fight for greater access for their citizens as well as anything else they can get. The EU has also had its head in the sand about various issues. The interesting thing about the referendum was how every individual vote counted, no safe/swing seats.
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Post by Admin on Sept 3, 2019 19:17:30 GMT
There is a real problem with division - and some left wing supporters want to leave the EU too. There are millions of individual reasons for voting leave. The whole Brexit question is massively complex. It should have never been put up for referendum in the first place. But this is like politics in general - what real capacity do a lot of people have to really understand a lot of areas, let alone to vote on it all? But i think that this has always been the problem with democracy. www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/24/brexit-more-complex-than-first-moon-landing-says-academic-studyPlato was right on many areas (imo) - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosopher_kingwww.quora.com/Who-called-democracy-the-rule-of-foolsi think that there is enough evidence from history as to what happens with the far right, & what is the answer to it? i have always considered that there are genuine alternatives to money / politics / religions - this system. But how do 'we' transition to something genuinely different / better? i can't see that there will be anything genuinely different until there is a collapse of the current system, but the implications of that i think will be catastrophic. i may however be totally wrong about it all. i can see validity to all sides of the Brexit argument & the logic of all areas of the political spectrum, but it doesn't mean that i agree with it all. Of course there are problems with the EU. Come what may we have to go through it all. i don't feel too good or hopeful about the whole thing.
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Post by snowstorm on Sept 3, 2019 19:52:21 GMT
Come what may we have to go through it all. i don't feel too good or hopeful about the whole thing. Me neither. All in all it's a complete mess and as Danny Dyer said, David Cameron/George Osborne should come back and sort it out - helped by Nick Clegg (last seen on fb) for waving through all the austerity policies to the nth degree. Nigel Farage and the Brexiteers should be held accountable for the lies etc etc. At least more people in the UK appear to be taking an interest in politics.
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Post by Admin on Sept 3, 2019 19:57:01 GMT
Come what may we have to go through it all. i don't feel too good or hopeful about the whole thing. Me neither. All in all it's a complete mess and as Danny Dyer said, David Cameron/George Osborne should come back and sort it out - helped by Nick Clegg (last seen on fb) for waving through all the austerity policies to the nth degree. Nigel Farage and the Brexiteers should be held accountable for the lies etc etc. At least more people in the UK appear to be taking an interest in politics. If there is major chaos; fuel, food & medication shortages the country will go ballistic within the matter of a few days. Increased social collapse will also certainly be a wake up call.
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Post by snowstorm on Sept 3, 2019 21:28:30 GMT
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