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Post by Admin on May 20, 2019 10:57:15 GMT
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Post by snowstorm on May 21, 2019 18:34:40 GMT
That was well worth a watch - astounding that 96% of sz sufferers in their research had magical-religious or paranoid delusions. According to that we are born into the wrong type of society to appreciate talents we could use, especially if trained. Interesting how Shamans often identify with animals, this caught my attention as well; blog.pachamama.org/plant-spirit-shamanism-call-plantswww.pachamama.org/about/originSome difficult pics of Bedlam inmates etc., it's easier to listen to this vid than look at it. Also the comparison with Bipolar was v interesting. Thanks, Admin for posting.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2019 9:10:48 GMT
Genuinely disturbed that I may have the same disorder as Hitler.
Have always thought that musicians who come up with songs considered 'classic' and seemingly universally appreciated have in the process of creating them been 'touched by God' or directly connected to a higher power.
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Post by Admin on May 24, 2019 9:17:56 GMT
Genuinely disturbed that I may have the same disorder as Hitler. Have always thought that musicians who come up with songs considered 'classic' and seemingly universally appreciated have in the process of creating them been 'touched by God' or directly connected to a higher power. Hitler was a very powerful mystic & very much in contact with his unconscious mind. i share the same personality type as Hitler. This is the thing with mental illness isn't it - there is good & bad within it all. On the one hand is the drive to see people suffering no fault illness who need proper understanding, care, help & support - & on the other hand a percentage of it all is seen as very dangerous individuals who the public need protecting from & who need serious treatment. This is part of the whole conundrum with it all.
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Post by Admin on May 24, 2019 9:20:40 GMT
i share the same personality type as Hitler. At one time i also shared one of the same delusions of Charles Manson & believed that i was both God & the Devil.
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Post by Admin on May 24, 2019 9:24:14 GMT
Genuinely disturbed that I may have the same disorder as Hitler. Look also at how a high percentage of the general public also always fully go along with such insane & despotic leaders - look currently at country after country falling to far right leaders. www.youtube.com/watch?v=14Bn3uYqaXA
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2019 9:43:38 GMT
i share the same personality type as Hitler. At one time i also shared one of the same delusions of Charles Manson & believed that i was both God & the Devil. Yes but Charles Manson was (imo) probably also a psychopath or had psychopathic tendencies. You wouldn't manipulate other people into knocking on someone's door and killing them when they answered. He was very good at manipulating other people. I wonder if he made the whole schizophrenia thing up by pretending to be like that. Either that or he had tendencies to both. I don't know a lot about him, but I do know that most people who harm others when suffering psychosis are disordered in their thinking and not fully aware of what they are doing in the way he was, his thinking seemed very clear and planned and while I am not saying it isn't possible he just comes across more as a psychopath to me than someone with schizophrenia.
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Post by Admin on May 24, 2019 10:12:09 GMT
At one time i also shared one of the same delusions of Charles Manson & believed that i was both God & the Devil. Yes but Charles Manson was (imo) probably also a psychopath or had psychopathic tendencies. You wouldn't manipulate other people into knocking on someone's door and killing them when they answered. He was very good at manipulating other people. I wonder if he made the whole schizophrenia thing up by pretending to be like that. Either that or he had tendencies to both. I don't know a lot about him, but I do know that most people who harm others when suffering psychosis are disordered in their thinking and not fully aware of what they are doing in the way he was, his thinking seemed very clear and planned and while I am not saying it isn't possible he just comes across more as a psychopath to me than someone with schizophrenia. But this is part of it all - psychiatry covers neuroses / psychoses & personality disorders - this is part of the whole field as to what to do with everything that comes under mental illness.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2019 10:21:47 GMT
But a lot of people knowing someone has the same disorder as a killer will immediately think everyone with that disorder is a killer. I just don't like thinking I have anything in common with Hitler. We all make choices and choose to see things a certain way; what makes some people who have been bullied retreat into themselves and others become bullies themselves for example? There must be more going on with Hitler and Charles Manson than their diagnoses. That isn't what modern psychiatry really takes into consideration though - if you are seen as schizophrenic by a psychiatrist then the mental health team immediately worries about risk from you to others or presumes it could be an issue. I think in general those who are violent and seen as schizophrenic tend to have been violent in the past, and how many people in other cultures are violent with what would be considered in our culture as symptoms of schizophrenia? How society and others treat you is as much an influence in how the 'symptoms' manifest themselves as anything else (imo).
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Post by Admin on May 24, 2019 10:42:16 GMT
But a lot of people knowing someone has the same disorder as a killer will immediately think everyone with that disorder is a killer. I just don't like thinking I have anything in common with Hitler. We all make choices and choose to see things a certain way; what makes some people who have been bullied retreat into themselves and others become bullies themselves for example? There must be more going on with Hitler and Charles Manson than their diagnoses. That isn't what modern psychiatry really takes into consideration though - if you are seen as schizophrenic by a psychiatrist then the mental health team immediately worries about risk from you to others or presumes it could be an issue. I think in general those who are violent and seen as schizophrenic tend to have been violent in the past, and how many people in other cultures are violent with what would be considered in our culture as symptoms of schizophrenia? How society and others treat you is as much an influence in how the 'symptoms' manifest themselves as anything else (imo). Yes - & i think it is highly complex what all the individual aetiology; biological, psychogenic, sociological & soul / spiritual / transpersonal variables are within it all. Immensely individual & complex. Reality is however that a percentage of people suffering mental illness are a danger to themselves, others & violent, some to the extreme. It is a very highly individual & nuanced area, & people have to be taken on a case by case basis. For the past 18 years & through 3 very major psychotic episodes 16 to 18 years ago i have been zero real threat or danger to anyone (other than when i tried to get out of a moving car), & have not been considered to be. Far more i am the one who has been in a very vulnerable position. In the past when in severe psychosis & addiction i have been a danger to myself & others & i don't think it surprising that i was forced sectioned 4 times. & yes within some far more ideal society / system & approach to it all maybe it could have all been very different? But that's Not the society / system that we live in. i have been / am too unwell to work & work would make me more ill. The last psychiatrist agrees. i had to argue at tribunal that i would be a potential danger to myself & / or others within work related activity or have my benefits stopped - & the judge agreed that work related activity would be a detriment to my recovery. We have to live within the realities of how this society / system actually is. & none of it is how i'd like it all to be, but i can really do Nothing to change it all.
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Post by Admin on May 24, 2019 10:43:52 GMT
But a lot of people knowing someone has the same disorder as a killer will immediately think everyone with that disorder is a killer. I just don't like thinking I have anything in common with Hitler. How do we change all the society / system around it all? All the stigma & discrimination, ignorance, stereotypes & shit treatment?
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2019 11:39:06 GMT
I think we have enough going on with our health, and struggles with society, never mind be expected to change things. So called 'normals' should be our allies. Let's not pretend that anyone is immune to mh problems and that includes those who work in the system. Until the 'us and them' mentality many of us tend to have on both sides ends, and we are seen as equals it will be hard to get others to campaign on our behalf. But until 'normals' do there's little we can change. And given the current system perpetuates the mentality it's a vicious circle.
We need those who work with us to help. One step that isn't so unrealistic is an on hand counselling service for staff, which would help them deal with the stress of the job and stop taking out their frustrations on patients, and blaming those who are unwell for the way the system makes their job harder.
For a start the public has a lot of respect for nurses, especially those who work with those who they see as dangerous and bad, e.g. the mentally ill. Pressure on higher ups could encourage a counselling service for staff, which would foster better relationships with patients, and maybe lead to an improved system, and them deciding to publicly help us. Once they can regain any empathy and enthusiasm they had for patients when they started, it could be a catalyst for change and more solidarity. I don't see how under capitalism the medical model will ever be seen as anything but the ideal paradigm for mental health treatment.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2019 11:44:05 GMT
Of course there's a contradiction there, in implying the job is stressful because of patients to get the service, and then turning round and saying it's the system that is the problem, and it stigmatizes the mentally ill. I just think a counselling service for staff would be more likely in the current climate than any more empathy or comprehensive help for patients.
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Post by Admin on May 24, 2019 12:47:33 GMT
Of course there's a contradiction there, in implying the job is stressful because of patients to get the service, and then turning round and saying it's the system that is the problem, and it stigmatizes the mentally ill. I just think a counselling service for staff would be more likely in the current climate than any more empathy or comprehensive help for patients. As Laing & others have pointed out within the undiagnosed masses - what is 'sane & normal' is largely in many ways insane. There is a mass psychopathology within humanity. Some 98% of people are locked into egoic consciousness / thinking & believing that the Global Death system that is destroying the planet is the very best thing that we could all ever come up with - with the general mentality, to generalise; that Capitalism & the biomedical / scientific materialist system is the best / most true, & that the parodied alternatives - some new age hogwash, communism & exoteric religions are all rubbish. The Sane Society - en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Sane_SocietyDispelling Wetiko: Breaking the Curse of Evil Printed in the Fall 2014 issue of Quest magazine. Citation: Levy, Paul."Dispelling Wetiko: Breaking the Curse of Evil" Quest 102.4 (Fall 2014): pg. 146-151. By Paul Levy www.theosophical.org/publications/quest-magazine/3472'Civilisation' is Insane - healingsanctuary.proboards.com/thread/11/civilisation-insane?page=1You can't have a mainstream mental health / psychiatric system that is fit for purpose & appropriate treatment / healing of the 'mad' within a society / system / humanity that is itself largely insane, & treats mental illness primarily in terms of social control & punishment. & regarding the 4% of people that suffer diagnosed severe mental illness, the demographics are really too small to give a shit - especially considering the 1% of people diagnosed with schizophrenia, with only 0.2% as more severe cases. What comes under severe mental illness is also very much often interrelated within all the other sociological / systemic realities of society - familial & wider social / environmental dynamics, stress, trauma & abuse, wider socioeconomic circumstances, criminality & the criminal justice system, issues with substance misuse / addiction, etc. To be properly addressed then all the areas implicated would need to be fully acknowledged - & they won't be. It's a hell of a lot simpler to primarily blame people's broken biology & morality / personal failings & control / treat / punish accordingly. You can't get most of the mental health community / people that suffer mental illness to agree on it all - nor can you with the wider pubic or the establishment; scientific, medical & psychiatric / psychological professions. Many thousands of people that speak more sense on it all are simply thrown in the dustbin - look at Jung & others.
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Post by Admin on May 24, 2019 13:04:47 GMT
I think we have enough going on with our health, and struggles with society, never mind be expected to change things. So called 'normals' should be our allies. Let's not pretend that anyone is immune to mh problems and that includes those who work in the system. Until the 'us and them' mentality many of us tend to have on both sides ends, and we are seen as equals it will be hard to get others to campaign on our behalf. But until 'normals' do there's little we can change. And given the current system perpetuates the mentality it's a vicious circle. We need those who work with us to help. One step that isn't so unrealistic is an on hand counselling service for staff, which would help them deal with the stress of the job and stop taking out their frustrations on patients, and blaming those who are unwell for the way the system makes their job harder. For a start the public has a lot of respect for nurses, especially those who work with those who they see as dangerous and bad, e.g. the mentally ill. Pressure on higher ups could encourage a counselling service for staff, which would foster better relationships with patients, and maybe lead to an improved system, and them deciding to publicly help us. Once they can regain any empathy and enthusiasm they had for patients when they started, it could be a catalyst for change and more solidarity. I don't see how under capitalism the medical model will ever be seen as anything but the ideal paradigm for mental health treatment. i think part of the mentality is that mainstream society / life is felt / seen to be hard & shit for a lot of people & so why should 'we' give the mentally ill an easy time of anything? & to the 'sane', mental illness is all mainly childish malingering & silly nonsense anyway, or it's the fault of morally inferior & feckless / irresponsible individuals. Humans will never be seen as equals under the current socioeconomic systems. i can see why a lot of people just stop giving a shit about humans. Look at how divided our own county & wider 'civilisation' has become, & it always has been. At least in recorded history; a lot of humans have spent a lot of their time & efforts hating & killing each other, & it is no different today. Stephen King who speaks a lot of sense said that we invented politics & religions to try & stop killing each other as much, but even that hasn't / doesn't work that well to stop it all. It was no different within some 120 thousand years of hunter gatherer shamanic / tribal communities - in fact even though there was less of them the murder rates were even higher. Very good case to say that there is some fundamental flaw within humans - an underdeveloped frontal lobe? Who knows? The Ghost in the Machine - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ghost_in_the_Machine
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