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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 9:58:36 GMT
What do people think of this? The speaker is Karen Taylor who is behind the Recovery Model (in next post).
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 10:02:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 10:03:10 GMT
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Post by Admin on May 17, 2019 10:13:18 GMT
Thanks for sharing.
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Post by Admin on May 17, 2019 10:47:55 GMT
What do people think of this? i think that it is all so individual, in depth & complex. & that there is so much nuance within the way psychiatry / mental health services operate & with the whole recovery / healing movement. Personally i find the whole society / system very fragmented around it all, with so many different opinions & perspectives on all these areas. All of my own history & experiences with it all of experiencing very severe psychosis & 8 very major episodes, 4 psychiatric hospitalisations / involvement with services, being diagnosed with severe schizophrenia & also of recovery / healing & working with healers / groups around alternatives for 18 years & being discharged from services now again for around 8 years, has all been very mixed. All the different opinions considered - i do accept my own schizophrenia diagnosis / illness / condition & need to maintain the medication, that is part of the whole social / systemic / political realities around it all, & i also have to as part of continuing to get social security support, as i am too unwell to currently work & would likely be on the streets without that support. 10 years of Tory Austerity / cuts & welfare 'reforms' have really Not been healthy for my recovery & mental health. For me it makes sense to see it all within integral / holistic & differential terms - both / & - a severe mental illness from a whole person perspective (mind / body / soul / spirit / environment) - & both a severe mental illness with aspects of spiritual crisis / emergence. Maybe there is some way of genuinely integrating all areas? Of integrating psychiatry / mental health services with all the recovery / healing / alternative areas. Of having a genuinely integrated, individualised, person centred model & approach. The biological / psychological / social / spiritual areas i feel are all important. Maybe things slowly will 'crystallise' into some universal integrated holistic Model within the whole of health care. How about a department / job role as an integrated services network systems manager? Who looks at everything / every area within society / the system & a persons life, & how best to help each individual from a fully integrated perspective. But maybe that is God?
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 11:39:54 GMT
Maybe.
Certainly mh services tend to be apolitical; they don't question the system or why people have had the life circumstances they do. They just try and help in the areas they can. This generally means farming out to support services and liaising with other organisations, e.g. to help with debts, anything which can be seen as detrimental to one's mh. The spiritual side of mh is pretty much ignored. The closest they come to it is mindfulness practice.
With your personal experiences and depth of knowledge around all these areas you would be well placed to be the next best thing to God with regards to a potential integrates services network systems manager. Maybe God's representative on Earth. I suppose many people are in the work they do.
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Post by Admin on May 17, 2019 12:03:19 GMT
Maybe. Certainly mh services tend to be apolitical; they don't question the system or why people have had the life circumstances they do. They just try and help in the areas they can. This generally means farming out to support services and liaising with other organisations, e.g. to help with debts, anything which can be seen as detrimental to one's mh. The spiritual side of mh is pretty much ignored. The closest they come to it is mindfulness practice. With your personal experiences and depth of knowledge around all these areas you would be well placed to be the next best thing to God with regards to a potential integrates services network systems manager. Maybe God's representative on Earth. I suppose many people are in the work they do. It seems totally mad to me to separate people from their entire sociological / environmental / familial / relational / socioeconomic / political / experiential context. i would think that psychology (inner World of thoughts / feelings & emotions) & sociology / environment is just as important as all the biological areas. Very hard for people i feel with all the religious / spiritual areas, especially with the dominance of the paradigm of scientific materialism / biomedical / capitalist & consumerist systems. i feel it does come down to a generally agreed upon model of truth & reality - But this is where the problems come in with all the disagreement on it all.
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Post by Admin on May 17, 2019 12:23:01 GMT
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Post by Admin on May 17, 2019 12:35:02 GMT
All of my own history & experiences with it all of experiencing very severe psychosis & 8 very major episodes, 4 psychiatric hospitalisations / involvement with services, being diagnosed with severe schizophrenia & also of recovery / healing & working with healers / groups around alternatives for 18 years & being discharged from services now again for around 8 years, has all been very mixed. To experience what has been diagnosed as & agreed on by consultant psychiatrists as severe schizophrenia, with all that has entailed - to then be told by some people that mental illness doesn't exist & the real problem is that i am identified with / as a diagnosis / label / experience & there is really Nothing wrong & i am really a master healer / powerful magician / mystic / warrior shaman / visionary / seer / psychic - etc etc - is really Not helpful. A lot of the controversy / debate / argument / theories around the aetiology / nature of what comes under the psychoses / schizophrenia is maddening in itself.
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Post by Admin on May 17, 2019 12:49:53 GMT
All of my own history & experiences with it all of experiencing very severe psychosis & 8 very major episodes, 4 psychiatric hospitalisations / involvement with services, being diagnosed with severe schizophrenia & also of recovery / healing & working with healers / groups around alternatives for 18 years & being discharged from services now again for around 8 years, has all been very mixed. To experience what has been diagnosed as & agreed on by consultant psychiatrists as severe schizophrenia, with all that has entailed - to then be told by some people that mental illness doesn't exist & the real problem is that i am identified with / as a diagnosis / label / experience & there is really Nothing wrong & i am really a master healer / powerful magician / mystic / warrior shaman / visionary / seer / psychic - etc etc - is really Not helpful. A lot of the controversy / debate / argument / theories around the aetiology / nature of what comes under the psychoses / schizophrenia is maddening in itself. i can however appreciate far more all the different areas / opinions / aspects of it all, from the mainstream psychiatric / mental health services & all the critics. Same with everything else - this is very far from an ideal World & 'everyone' has different ideas on what their ideal World would be like, & how they want things to be.
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Post by snowstorm on May 17, 2019 13:00:20 GMT
Why can't healers entertain the notion that someone could be a schizophrenic visionary?
Maybe it is not a popular view with clients. Maybe if they acknowledged it, they would have to acknowledge they cannot simply 'fix' the sz.
Whereas saying it's all spiritual means their interventions cannot necessarily be pinned down as insufficient.
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Post by Admin on May 17, 2019 13:30:19 GMT
Why can't healers entertain the notion that someone could be a schizophrenic visionary? Maybe it is not a popular view with clients. Maybe if they acknowledged it, they would have to acknowledge they cannot simply 'fix' the sz. Whereas saying it's all spiritual means their interventions cannot necessarily be pinned down as insufficient. It all seems so individual & to involve so many variables. Within the literature / history & currently within a lot of the alternative / recovery areas - shades of awakening / spiritual crisis networks - the crazy wisdom project etc - there does appear to be a lot of people who claim to have cured themselves / fully healed medication free. Seems to be so many variations of people, severity of illness / circumstances / experiences, opinions & prognosis. i think it comes back to dealing with areas that really so little is more fully known, same with 'everything' - how much as a species do we categorically know & fully understand about everything?
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 15:56:07 GMT
Well it makes sense to have a 'whole person', 'holistic' approach, as this optimises the potential for full recovery.
My question is how many people in services would be willing to adopt such an approach, I mean staff and service users. Working on every aspect of oneself is much more effort than just taking meds. And the meds restrict physical health, and encourage poor diet. I feel that it would take a general shift in acknowledging the importance of holistic good health, perhaps in general society, before it would gain traction from staff and service users in the mh system.
The Recovery Model does talk about choice; these things should be at least available, and people should be encouraged to do what they want to in life, not to be told they are just a hopeless case who will be on meds for life and attending services for life. Hope is important.
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Post by Admin on May 17, 2019 16:34:23 GMT
Well it makes sense to have a 'whole person', 'holistic' approach, as this optimises the potential for full recovery. My question is how many people in services would be willing to adopt such an approach. This is the thing. It makes sense & is logical like systemic alternatives & other areas - But people don't want it. Within every age & time people feel that they are the most advanced that we can be, the pinnacle of civilisation, & that everything is according to the highest knowledge that we have. Look at the general attitude people have towards mental health services - it was all barbaric & now it's all civilised & humane & wonderful. It will be the same in the future if this civilisation survives - they will have a radically better general knowledge, understandings & approaches to all these & other areas & wonder why / how people in the past could have been so un-advanced, just as we do. They will very likely look back at Capitalism & a primary biomedical health system / scientific materialism & other areas as a 'complete joke'.
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Post by Admin on May 17, 2019 16:37:09 GMT
I feel that it would take a general shift in acknowledging the importance of holistic good health, perhaps in general society, before it would gain traction from staff and service users in the mh system. Yes - i don't think that it will happen in any significant way until there is a unified alternative mental health movement that leads to a unified mainstream social movement, to put pressure on the rest of society / system & Governments around it all. & i don't think that will happen in our lifetimes.
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