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Post by Admin on May 17, 2019 16:42:05 GMT
It's like all social & health care issues / areas - they are primarily health & social care issues best understood & approached in certain known ways, & mediated very heavily by the socioeconomic / political system. But currently a lot of it is seen primarily in criminal justice & moralistic terms / problems with certain individuals & groups / types of people & so much about blame & control.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 17:01:41 GMT
That is the challenge for staff, letting go of some of the power they have, letting people make their own choices and mistakes, but at the same time supporting, not controlling. Empowerment can only be a good thing for service users, mutual respect and a more equal relationship would be better for everyone. Letting us take responsibility for our actions and not infantilising us.
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Post by Admin on May 17, 2019 18:32:34 GMT
That is the challenge for staff, letting go of some of the power they have, letting people make their own choices and mistakes, but at the same time supporting, not controlling. Empowerment can only be a good thing for service users, mutual respect and a more equal relationship would be better for everyone. Letting us take responsibility for our actions and not infantilising us. & this is where, as with so many other areas of society, i don't think it is going to happen, without some major catalyst / event & transformation of collective human consciousness / meta-paradigm shift & complete shift of the society / system / establishment & dominant paradigms, especially Capitalist, political, exoteric religious, scientific materialism / biomedical focused paradigm, & mainstream media & other systems. The treatment of the 'mad' is too tied into all the wider socioeconomic / systemic areas & 'sane & normal' society / beliefs / paradigm. This 'civilisation' is destroying the actual planet / nature that we need for our own survival - & still it all carries on as business as usual. even that fact isn't enough to stop the current system / paradigm, & so 'they' are Not going to stop it all & transform everything because of the treatment of the 'mad', & other minority & oppressed groups / social justice issues / human rights areas. & it doesn't seem to matter what the actual truth is of this & other areas. The 4% of society deemed as being severely mentally ill, are simply largely seen as useless & dangerous & a problem to be managed by the society / system, same as addicts, criminals, homeless, jobless, the poor, sick, disabled & other undesirables - within often interrelated / 'intersectional' areas. Within 'normal' society beyond the irritation factors of such people, i'm not sure that it is even seen as an issue of any great importance. What stood out for me most in Karen's talk was the internalisation of stigma - but it's very hard not to, in cases i think it's impossible not to - & the need for people to have a diagnosis for the eligibility of support & services. i wasn't filled with joy looking around at & listening to the audience of mental health professionals - But nor do i think that they have an easy job.
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Post by Admin on May 17, 2019 18:49:59 GMT
That is the challenge for staff, letting go of some of the power they have, letting people make their own choices and mistakes, but at the same time supporting, not controlling. Empowerment can only be a good thing for service users, mutual respect and a more equal relationship would be better for everyone. Letting us take responsibility for our actions and not infantilising us. You only need to look at all the long term research / studies / statistics as to the failure of the primary biomedical / pharma paradigm / approach to mental illness, & superiority of other approaches, which some people have always pointed out & said - But it makes no difference how much evidence is thrown at it all. As with so much else - it doesn't appear to matter what the truth & facts are of anything.
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Post by Admin on May 17, 2019 19:05:45 GMT
That is the challenge for staff, letting go of some of the power they have, letting people make their own choices and mistakes, but at the same time supporting, not controlling. Empowerment can only be a good thing for service users, mutual respect and a more equal relationship would be better for everyone. Letting us take responsibility for our actions and not infantilising us. You only need to look at all the long term research / studies / statistics as to the failure of the primary biomedical / pharma paradigm / approach to mental illness, & superiority of other approaches, which some people have always pointed out & said - But it makes no difference how much evidence is thrown at it all. As with so much else - it doesn't appear to matter what the truth & facts are of anything. & tbh i think that we are edging closer to the full resurfacing of the same mentality that lead to judge certain people / groups as lebensunwertes Leben (Life unworthy of life).
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Post by Admin on May 17, 2019 19:10:55 GMT
You only need to look at all the long term research / studies / statistics as to the failure of the primary biomedical / pharma paradigm / approach to mental illness, & superiority of other approaches, which some people have always pointed out & said - But it makes no difference how much evidence is thrown at it all. As with so much else - it doesn't appear to matter what the truth & facts are of anything. & tbh i think that we are edging closer to the full resurfacing of the same mentality that lead to judge certain people / groups as lebensunwertes Leben (Life unworthy of life). The system / establishment / government / media has just found a very nefarious, subversive & underhand way of going about it all.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2019 19:20:19 GMT
That is the challenge for staff, letting go of some of the power they have, letting people make their own choices and mistakes, but at the same time supporting, not controlling. Empowerment can only be a good thing for service users, mutual respect and a more equal relationship would be better for everyone. Letting us take responsibility for our actions and not infantilising us. & this is where, as with so many other areas of society, i don't think it is going to happen, without some major catalyst / event & transformation of collective human consciousness / meta-paradigm shift & complete shift of the society / system / establishment & dominant paradigms, especially Capitalist, political, exoteric religious, scientific materialism / biomedical focused paradigm, & mainstream media & other systems. The treatment of the 'mad' is too tied into all the wider socioeconomic / systemic areas & 'sane & normal' society / beliefs / paradigm. This 'civilisation' is destroying the actual planet / nature that we need for our own survival - & still it all carries on as business as usual. even that fact isn't enough to stop the current system / paradigm, & so 'they' are Not going to stop it all & transform everything because of the treatment of the 'mad', & other minority & oppressed groups / social justice issues / human rights areas. & it doesn't seem to matter what the actual truth is of this & other areas. The 4% of society deemed as being severely mentally ill, are simply largely seen as useless & dangerous & a problem to be managed by the society / system, same as addicts, criminals, homeless, jobless, the poor, sick, disabled & other undesirables - within often interrelated / 'intersectional' areas. Within 'normal' society beyond the irritation factors of such people, i'm not sure that it is even seen as an issue of any great importance. What stood out for me most in Karen's talk was the internalisation of stigma - but it's very hard not to, in cases i think it's impossible not to - & the need for people to have a diagnosis for the eligibility of support & services. i wasn't filled with joy looking around at & listening to the audience of mental health professionals - But nor do i think that they have an easy job. Neither was I, tbh. I wonder how many of them thought the Recovery Model was achievable or realistic, or even if they thought it was an improvement on current services?
But I get that it can't be easy, and I do not think I could do it. Neither though could I toe the line on defending the way things are in the system.. I think a lot of staff feel they have to, whether they like it or not.
Mental illness definitely isn't seen as an issue of great importance, and we are tolerated, more than anything else. The stigma is worse for those who have psychotic symptoms.
It would not take a lot to convince people that we were not worth keeping alive. People are dying all the time in hospitals, but you never hear of it.. only of the members of the public we have harmed. Our lives do not matter at all. So it is unlikely to change.
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Post by Admin on May 17, 2019 19:38:10 GMT
& this is where, as with so many other areas of society, i don't think it is going to happen, without some major catalyst / event & transformation of collective human consciousness / meta-paradigm shift & complete shift of the society / system / establishment & dominant paradigms, especially Capitalist, political, exoteric religious, scientific materialism / biomedical focused paradigm, & mainstream media & other systems. The treatment of the 'mad' is too tied into all the wider socioeconomic / systemic areas & 'sane & normal' society / beliefs / paradigm. This 'civilisation' is destroying the actual planet / nature that we need for our own survival - & still it all carries on as business as usual. even that fact isn't enough to stop the current system / paradigm, & so 'they' are Not going to stop it all & transform everything because of the treatment of the 'mad', & other minority & oppressed groups / social justice issues / human rights areas. & it doesn't seem to matter what the actual truth is of this & other areas. The 4% of society deemed as being severely mentally ill, are simply largely seen as useless & dangerous & a problem to be managed by the society / system, same as addicts, criminals, homeless, jobless, the poor, sick, disabled & other undesirables - within often interrelated / 'intersectional' areas. Within 'normal' society beyond the irritation factors of such people, i'm not sure that it is even seen as an issue of any great importance. What stood out for me most in Karen's talk was the internalisation of stigma - but it's very hard not to, in cases i think it's impossible not to - & the need for people to have a diagnosis for the eligibility of support & services. i wasn't filled with joy looking around at & listening to the audience of mental health professionals - But nor do i think that they have an easy job. Neither was I, tbh. I wonder how many of them thought the Recovery Model was achievable or realistic, or even if they thought it was an improvement on current services?
But I get that it can't be easy, and I do not think I could do it. Neither though could I toe the line on defending the way things are in the system.. I think a lot of staff feel they have to, whether they like it or not.
Mental illness definitely isn't seen as an issue of great importance, and we are tolerated, more than anything else. The stigma is worse for those who have psychotic symptoms.
It would not take a lot to convince people that we were not worth keeping alive. People are dying all the time in hospitals, but you never hear of it.. only of the members of the public we have harmed. Our lives do not matter at all. So it is unlikely to change.
Yea. This is very far from an ideal World as our old friend Rambo would say. i wonder if the best idea as far as possible is to try & be free of all of it - all the mainstream services, all the alternative / recovery areas, healers, psychologists & therapists, all the books, web sites, arguments & discussions on it all. Just try & forget about the whole thing. i am sure that there are a lot of people out there who do just that - who have been through the system & are quietly working & living in society who don't discuss on go into it all with anyone. They probably have the right idea.
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Post by snowstorm on May 18, 2019 9:01:31 GMT
This is a challenge because of the impact of experiences - very difficult to just sweep it under the carpet - but being selective in who it is discussed with is useful I think, not everyone would understand.
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Post by Admin on May 18, 2019 9:20:04 GMT
I wonder how many of them thought the Recovery Model was achievable or realistic, or even if they thought it was an improvement on current services? The society / system - psychiatry & mental health system is the ways it all is. It can't be denied that some 4% of people have / do suffer with severe mental illness, & i think that it is a very difficult question concerning their treatment. i think personally that something serious needs to be done about all the health & social / care issues that we face as a society. i don't know exactly what a more ideal solution is & how it could be achieved within the current society / system? All the different arguments, agendas & opinions around all these areas don't seem to have improved things that much. All the wonderful treatment & social / systemic alternatives don't exist in any practical sense, especially in the UK. & there is zero social / political will to try & introduce any of it. i can imagine very easily a wonderful World, society & civilisation, living in peace & harmony with the natural planet & each other, where everyone is properly cared for & looked after. We know as a species what the problems & solutions are & we could very easily heal ourselves & the earth & create a paradise. But we don't.
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Post by Admin on May 18, 2019 10:45:41 GMT
I wonder how many of them thought the Recovery Model was achievable or realistic, or even if they thought it was an improvement on current services? The introduction of mindfulness is the most important thing to have happened over recent years. Anyone that seriously looks into, practises & applies it all, will come to the realisation that the system / Ego / Mind is Not the totality of reality / the true self & they are on the path to genuine Self realisation. The 'problem' is that you can't make or force people to see the truth of all that - they have to come to their own realisation & application of it all.
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Post by snowstorm on May 18, 2019 18:11:41 GMT
Sounds great, where is it?
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Post by Admin on May 19, 2019 7:54:49 GMT
Sounds great, where is it? i am sure that such a global civilisation once existed on this planet. i am also sure that such civilisations exist on other planets within the Universe - In one calculation, the Milky Way has a mass of about 100 billion solar masses, so it is easiest to translate that to 100 billion stars. This accounts for the stars that would be bigger or smaller than our sun, and averages them out. Other mass estimates bring the number up to 400 billion. There are a 2,000 Billion Galaxies within the known Universe, each with a similar estimation of stars - 2,000 Billion Galaxies X 100 to 400 Billion Stars - 2,000 Billion Galaxies x 40 Billion planets. i also see no reason why humanity as a whole couldn't work towards such a global civilisation on this planet, now. i would also think that the higher astral & higher spiritual realms are like this.
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