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Post by Admin on Dec 30, 2018 17:42:54 GMT
Looking at people like Robin Williams, Sinead O' Connor, Carrie Fisher, Peter Green, Syd Barrett, Marilyn Monroe, many others, it often seems that there are some tragic trajectories when celebrities are hit with mental illness.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2018 17:50:27 GMT
I think whatever you think of him, it is more whether people feel their creative juices flow more freely on or off meds, or if it doesn't make any difference. I agree with you about it being individual, and I think (from what I can gather) the article is generalizing about it, where it isn't something that can be generalized.
But I don't like him either particularly. On the other hand I hate when his mental health is used as an excuse to denigrate him and his actions, such as his one time endorsement of Donald Trump. Being diagnosed with bipolar does not explain that in itself. I wonder if he would have had the same diagnosis if he was not famous and had influence, as I have heard he has suffered psychosis.. maybe he would be schizophrenic now?
However I am not an expert on him, is just my viewpoint.
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Post by Admin on Dec 30, 2018 18:05:40 GMT
I think whatever you think of him, it is more whether people feel their creative juices flow more freely on or off meds, or if it doesn't make any difference. I agree with you about it being individual, and I think (from what I can gather) the article is generalizing about it, where it isn't something that can be generalized. But I don't like him either particularly. On the other hand I hate when his mental health is used as an excuse to denigrate him and his actions, such as his one time endorsement of Donald Trump. Being diagnosed with bipolar does not explain that in itself. I wonder if he would have had the same diagnosis if he was not famous and had influence, as I have heard he has suffered psychosis.. maybe he would be schizophrenic now? However I am not an expert on him, is just my viewpoint. What does this say? [incidence rate for bipolar is said to be the same for schizophrenia - 1%] List of people with bipolar disorder en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_with_bipolar_disorderList of people with schizophrenia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_with_schizophrenia
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2018 18:35:09 GMT
Interesting but am not surprised that the list is much longer for famous people with bipolar disorder.
It's a lot more socially acceptable in my opinion and I think the difference in diagnosis choice is also subject to class, race and gender biases. Maybe some celebrities can afford to throw enough money at a psychiatrist to get the less stigmatizing option?
Am not belittling the effects of bipolar as an illness, in symptoms and societal judgement, both illnesses can be devastating, but psychiatric diagnoses are not set in stone.
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Post by Admin on Dec 30, 2018 19:25:33 GMT
Interesting but am not surprised that the list is much longer for famous people with bipolar disorder. It's a lot more socially acceptable in my opinion and I think the difference in diagnosis choice is also subject to class, race and gender biases. Maybe some celebrities can afford to throw enough money at a psychiatrist to get the less stigmatizing option? Am not belittling the effects of bipolar as an illness, in symptoms and societal judgement, both illnesses can be devastating, but psychiatric diagnoses are not set in stone. Yes i think the whole of psychiatric nosology is open to a lot of debate & is more philosophy / art form. Beyond very loose ranges of symptomatology, there is no real backing of hard science for psychiatry. But again that doesn't deny the severity / difficulties of what people experience. i like what Laing said - that diagnoses are more psychiatric theory & social & political reality - he did eventually concede to there being a biology to schizophrenia - i think this is the thing - these are whole person conditions with variable / multi-factorial aetiology.
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Post by Admin on Dec 31, 2018 7:49:19 GMT
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Post by Admin on Dec 31, 2018 7:57:04 GMT
THERESA MAY'S MENTAL HEALTH ACT REFORM: WARM WORDS BUT SCANT ACTION www.byline.com/column/22/article/2381"With virtually nil national coverage Theresa May's commissioned report on reforming the mental health act- the first for 30 years - was released last month. But it is a tame review acknowledging there is institutional racism in mental health but offering no solutions."
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Post by snowstorm on Dec 31, 2018 8:56:19 GMT
i like what Laing said - that diagnoses are more psychiatric theory & social & political reality - he did eventually concede to there being a biology to schizophrenia - i think this is the thing - these are whole person conditions with variable / multi-factorial aetiology. Why is it that manic depression had a name change to bipolar disorder but schizophrenia is still the same word/label? ( Not that bipolar disorder is an improvement, it's an awful wording as well.) I am not sure what would be less of a label - maybe 'mood change condition' - getting rid of the 'bipolar' bit and the 'disorder' bit. Sz could be 'perception condition' or could pinch the Japanese idea and call it 'integration condition'.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 9:08:48 GMT
It's difficult to think of a name for a condition that affects you negatively that could be seen as positive.
Mood change disorder might be seen by some as 'being moody'.
People just have a negative view of people with mental illness, you rarely hear anyone say anything good about it, certainly not from those not diagnosed or who consider themselves 'normal'.
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Post by snowstorm on Dec 31, 2018 9:18:31 GMT
It's difficult to think of a name for a condition that affects you negatively that could be seen as positive.
It's just trying to get a less stigmatising description, the words used are so important as to how things are seen/understood - I do consider that the whole 'disorder' word should be dropped. Calling it an illness would be more descriptive than a 'disorder' in some ways. Some of the anti-psychiatrists would no doubt object to calling any of it an 'illness'.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 9:36:33 GMT
The problem with not seeing it as an illness is that even if you recognise the suffering it can cause, you need to have a medicalised version to qualify for any help at present, for the issue itself or financially. It sounds like you would agree with the people in the Drop The Disorder! movement. www.adisorder4everyone.comwww.madinamerica.com/2017/01/time-drop-disorder/
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Post by Admin on Dec 31, 2018 10:00:25 GMT
It's difficult to think of a name for a condition that affects you negatively that could be seen as positive.
It's just trying to get a less stigmatising description, the words used are so important as to how things are seen/understood - I do consider that the whole 'disorder' word should be dropped. Calling it an illness would be more descriptive than a 'disorder' in some ways. Some of the anti-psychiatrists would no doubt object to calling any of it an 'illness'. Why can't all the mental health areas / arguments be more properly settled? i think that part of the issue, despite similarities & cross overs, is that people are individuals, there is an individual aetiology, presentation & prognosis. Cases are individual, in depth & complex & involve multiple factors. No one is wholly right or wrong about it all. It can be seen in terms of varying levels of severity of psychopathology - it can be seen in terms of biology, & psychology & sociology & in terms of the soul / spiritual / transpersonal, & integral / differential. It can all be viewed from the biomedical, neurological, in terms of the philosophical & existential, in terms of stress, abuse & trauma; relational & sociological, in terms of shamanic / healing crisis / spiritual emergency, in terms of diet & nutrition, in terms of depth psychology etc. It can be seen primarily in terms of illness, or in terms of potential healing & transformation. For me it comes back to the central point that everyone is a human Being, deserving of genuine equality & equal human rights & to be treated humanely with kindness, care & compassion, & helped & supported as best as possible. Treat people well & they generally feel & do better, treat people badly & they generally feel worse & do worse - i think it is that simple on one level. Deeply listen to, validate & understand people & they feel better. It is all greatly complicated by the complexities & realities of the wider society / system / 'civilisation' - this is the rub - how people are generally treated is dependent on the wider milieu / social environment. Why has there been & is there such a block on the proper & humane treatment of the 'mad' / mentally ill / poor, sick, disabled, minorities & vulnerable? There is something within the collective human psyche that seems to feel that certain demographics of people are in need of punishment & bad treatment. i can't see it all fundamentally changing until there is a genuine shift within the collective psyche of humanity & the manifestation of a far more genuinely civilised civilisation. 'We' are simply generally Not that evolved as a species. 'Normal' is pathological in certain ways. What does it & will it take to create a World of genuine advancement, morality, peace & harmony? & is that even possible within the realities of how most humans appear to be, think, perceive & operate? Within the current 'normal' levels of consciousness / awareness. The natural World is being destroyed - that alone is severely pathological in itself, & an act of suicide on a collective level.
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Post by Admin on Dec 31, 2018 10:06:21 GMT
The problem with not seeing it as an illness is that even if you recognise the suffering it can cause, you need to have a medicalised version to qualify for any help at present, for the issue itself or financially. & this has now become a very major issue & another of the giant elephants in the room. Great for people who are highly privileged, affluent, able to cope & who are well looked after & do well within this current society / system (& i would controversially add with a lot of them have less severe illness / were better able to recover) - but utterly screwed if you don't fall into that demographic. i think that part of this anti / alternative psychiatry / medication agenda has done & is doing a lot of damage to a percentage of people. It is denying the realities, challenges, difficulties & experiences, & levels of illness / suffering that some people face. i don't agree any more with this denial of illness - it translates into the denial of people realities.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 10:19:52 GMT
Some of them are full on right wing libertarians and criticise anyone who claims benefits because of mental health problems. They see it as a lifestyle choice. This is a common view, even amongst less politically astute people.
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Post by Admin on Dec 31, 2018 10:21:36 GMT
It is all greatly complicated by the complexities & realities of the wider society / system / 'civilisation' - this is the rub - how people are generally treated is dependent on the wider milieu / social environment. Social environment en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_environmentReal Hallucinations Psychiatric Illness, Intentionality, and the Interpersonal World By Matthew Ratcliffe A philosophical account of the structure of experience and how it depends on interpersonal relations, developed through a study of auditory verbal hallucinations and thought insertion. mitpress.mit.edu/books/real-hallucinations& the horrible realisation that for whatever reasons humanity / this 'civilisation' is itself in a very real way Insane. The Sane Society - en.wikiquote.org/wiki/The_Sane_Society Dispelling Wetiko: Breaking the Curse of Evil Printed in the Fall 2014 issue of Quest magazine. Citation: Levy, Paul."Dispelling Wetiko: Breaking the Curse of Evil" Quest 102.4 (Fall 2014): pg. 146-151. By Paul Levy www.theosophical.org/publications/quest-magazine/3472
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