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Post by Admin on Dec 9, 2017 10:50:25 GMT
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Post by Bodhitree on Dec 9, 2017 12:50:34 GMT
This article pretty much clarifies how psychiatrists are relying on the biological nature of schizophrenia to stay as the physician in charge of treatment. If after all this key disease was found to be psychosocial, then what about other diseases? How long before psychologists were in charge, with psychiatrists reduced to a minor role in prescribing pills?
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Post by Admin on Dec 9, 2017 12:54:24 GMT
You know my view - it should be seen, understood & approached within an integral / holistic Model.
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Post by Bodhitree on Dec 11, 2017 8:17:21 GMT
I agree with you but that leaves a lot of ground unexplored. There is a lot of work to be done before we can say, this is the contribution of stress in the genesis of psychosis, and this is the value of respect in recovery.
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Post by Admin on Dec 11, 2017 8:18:37 GMT
I agree with you but that leaves a lot of ground unexplored. There is a lot of work to be done before we can say, this is the contribution of stress in the genesis of psychosis, and this is the value of respect in recovery. Of course 'we' know Fuck All - & we need to start with fully & honestly acknowledging all that.
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Post by Admin on Dec 11, 2017 9:05:36 GMT
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Post by Bodhitree on Dec 11, 2017 12:43:16 GMT
Yeah a few new things came out, including that article on schizophrenia being 80% genetic. The thing is, I’m diagnosed psychosis (NOS), but the rest of my family has no background in mental illness other than a bit of depression.
I recently watched Sean Blackwell’s video on bipolarorwakingup on YouTube, where he links Ken Wilber’s levels of consciousness with a psychotic spectrum ranging from severe schizophrenia to largely benign spiritual emergencies, with the more advanced people experiencing more spiritual experiences and those on the lower levels of Wilber’s scale experiencing more fear-based schizophrenia. I thought it was an interesting view which might bear further investigation.
It’s this video in particular...
Who knows? Maybe that is part of the answer.
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Post by Admin on Dec 11, 2017 13:27:02 GMT
Who knows? Maybe that is part of the answer. i watched all Shaun Blackwell's Videos, read his book, had a long e-mail discussion with him some years ago & have chatted with him on some facebook groups. Firstly he didn't / hasn't experienced what i can see as any severe / extreme experiences, just what appeared to be some quite mild & brief psychosis (some 3 days of strange experiences, a very short visit to psychiatric hospital & a lot of help / support around him) - he is also very elitist as to who he works with & what criteria that they have to fit, which far more covers very mild / transient experiences. In later work he has retracted a lot of his earlier work. i don't like the inference with it all that people classed as suffering with severe schizophrenia are somehow spiritually inferior, nor the focus primarily on very mild cases that within traditional psychiatry likely wouldn't even come under it all in the first place. i think that all these areas do need distinguishing. Yes extreme terror very often is a hallmark of some of what covers genuine severe schizophrenia. No doubt he does some good work, but i went off a lot of his stuff, especially in relation to what comes under severe psychosis / schizophrenia & more extreme experiences. In later videos he retracted a lot of his earlier anti psychiatry / anti medication position, claimed that there was a place for it all & took a far more integral & nuanced Model. i think he had dealings with some genuine / severe cases of classic manic depression & it changed his whole outlook & working model / criteria. i don't see that he has suffered what comes under severe / classic manic depression, & then cured himself - & it is completely disingenuous to try & present it all as that. For some people i am sure that he is a help - But here again is the same problem - some 3% of people are classified under the RCP / International psychiatry as suffering long term, severe mental illness - the rest are Not, & the latter can't then project all their own experience onto the former - it's Not the same.
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Post by Admin on Dec 11, 2017 13:27:56 GMT
How is 80% of now what gets labelled as Bi-Polar the same as classic / severe Manic Depression? It's Not.
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Post by Bodhitree on Dec 11, 2017 15:21:16 GMT
As usual I am amazed at the depth of your knowledge in the field. You seem to have talked to everybody!
I can totally understand your point of view. There is such a huge variance within the field of schizophrenia, from severe cases who are heavily dosed on clozapine and still see hallucinations of poisonous sea-crab creatures every five minutes, to light cases who can hold down a job and speak publicly with ease.
Yet they’re still all just people, accorded the same rights and so on. You’re correct that SB’s work projects severe sz sufferers as ‘spiritually developmentally challenged’, which I feel is a dangerous assumption to make, if anything they need the help of spiritual institutions more than most.
But I can’t say I blame him for being selective in who he chooses to work with, the chances of good results with a severe schizophrenic are very slim if you try to treat them.
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Post by snowstorm on Dec 11, 2017 16:05:13 GMT
You’re correct that SB’s work projects severe sz sufferers as ‘spiritually developmentally challenged’, which I feel is a dangerous assumption to make, if anything they need the help of spiritual institutions more than most. Yes, sounds like a load of rubbish to me. Also, if you can cope with/get through a spiritual aspect of severe sz that is not a sign of being 'spiritually developmentally challenged' imo. It's a bit convenient though, isn't it? Maybe he wouldn't get good results because of his attitude.
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Post by Admin on Dec 11, 2017 16:19:33 GMT
As usual I am amazed at the depth of your knowledge in the field. You seem to have talked to everybody! Very easy to contact & chat with a lot of people - especially now with e-mail / facebook, especially authors.
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Post by Bodhitree on Dec 11, 2017 16:34:46 GMT
I was just looking up Eckhart Tolle’s views on mental illness and he had a few interesting things to say, basically that in all human beings awareness was trying to manifest itself but that it wasn’t equally easy for it to do so, that different humans had different makeups. So perhaps not entirely different from SB’s point of view although SB dresses it up in a little model of levels of consciousness while Eckhart just says it’s not equally easy for awareness to manifest.
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Post by snowstorm on Dec 11, 2017 17:50:06 GMT
Sean Blackwell in the video claims there is a seamless match between levels of consciousness and the type of episode someone has - that sz on the spectrum is all about the fear, I almost laughed when he claimed it was due/related to a feudal/tribal consciousness level.
Sz can be a very mixed experience, both positive and negative and imo can involve massive spiritual exposure, but being exposed to spiritual aspects or hellish sides and struggling with that is very different to being on a lower level of consciousness.
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Post by Admin on Dec 11, 2017 19:34:42 GMT
Sean Blackwell in the video claims there is a seamless match between levels of consciousness and the type of episode someone has - that sz on the spectrum is all about the fear, I almost laughed when he claimed it was due/related to a feudal/tribal consciousness level. Sz can be a very mixed experience, both positive and negative and imo can involve massive spiritual exposure, but being exposed to spiritual aspects or hellish sides and struggling with that is very different to being on a lower level of consciousness. Yes - all very true. i don't think that he has much of a clue what he is on about. & i think it's a massive problem now across the whole board of what comes under mental health - 80% of everything around it all is basically nonsense. i keep removing myself from a lot of facebook mental health discussion groups, & don't go on mainstream mental health forums anymore. i get verbally attacked by people on all 'sides' of all this debate.
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