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Post by Admin on Mar 17, 2020 19:35:13 GMT
We can talk about science. I'm open to learning more. After all, I only have a public school science education to fall back on. I'll read articles and get back to you. But can we talk? Many people use science as a smokescreen when it comes to their actual beliefs. Not saying you are, but I'm thinking of an old neighbor. He was rather enraptured by a modern professor who had mastered Darwinian Evolution and evolutionary biology I went back and studies this guy's writings, discovering in the process that this man made it his mission to try to debunk all religion. Still, I focused on his theories. But when I raised objections to the theories, my neighbor shifted the subject and it went no where. Now I suspect that his disbelief really had nothing to do with science at all. Science was just a smokescreen for him. I suspect the real reason was his anger. Anger in the idea of a loving God when he had suffered so much abuse as a child from his own father. If I could go back, I'd explain that God is not an abusive Dad. In this world, there is much evil and none of us will live very long without suffering. We will all suffer, some of in ways that seem beyond reason. But God cares. I believe He provided a solution. Namely Jesus. Still, I could use more science. It's good to have knowledge about how the world works. There is a science thread on the general board. i understand why a growing amount of people are Atheist / non religious - i understand why increasing amounts of people hate religion. If it's to be studied objectively - i think that we have to separate the questions as to the actual / full nature of the whole of truth & reality / all that is - from any preconceived beliefs / religions.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2020 19:44:00 GMT
We can talk about science. I'm open to learning more. After all, I only have a public school science education to fall back on. I'll read articles and get back to you. But can we talk? Many people use science as a smokescreen when it comes to their actual beliefs. Not saying you are, but I'm thinking of an old neighbor. He was rather enraptured by a modern professor who had mastered Darwinian Evolution and evolutionary biology I went back and studies this guy's writings, discovering in the process that this man made it his mission to try to debunk all religion. Still, I focused on his theories. But when I raised objections to the theories, my neighbor shifted the subject and it went no where. Now I suspect that his disbelief really had nothing to do with science at all. Science was just a smokescreen for him. I suspect the real reason was his anger. Anger in the idea of a loving God when he had suffered so much abuse as a child from his own father. If I could go back, I'd explain that God is not an abusive Dad. In this world, there is much evil and none of us will live very long without suffering. We will all suffer, some of in ways that seem beyond reason. But God cares. I believe He provided a solution. Namely Jesus. Still, I could use more science. It's good to have knowledge about how the world works. There is a science thread on the general board. i understand why a growing amount of people are Atheist / non religious - i understand why increasing amounts of people hate religion. If it's to be studied objectively - i think that we have to separate the questions as to the actual / full nature of the whole of truth & reality / all that is - from any preconceived beliefs / religions. Why?
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Post by Admin on Mar 17, 2020 19:52:45 GMT
Because it's part of the whole argument / problem in all this area, & why there is the division between science & religion - whose religion / god / belief system do we go with? None of it is objective.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2020 19:57:19 GMT
Because it's part of the whole argument / problem in all this area, & why there is the division between science & religion - whose religion / god / belief system do we go with? None of it is objective. Go with the real one.
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Post by Admin on Mar 17, 2020 19:58:10 GMT
Yes, there is the problem.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2020 20:05:01 GMT
Yes, there is the problem. Yes indeed. It begs the question, though. Do we really want the truth. I would wager that a person who really wanted truth wouldn't just shut down others who presented an idea of what truth us--- they'd just investigate to see whether that person were lying or not. If not, that would imply that a person isn't actually interested in finding truth but suppressing the idea that there is any truth--- something I find very common.
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Post by Admin on Mar 17, 2020 20:09:36 GMT
Yes indeed. It begs the question, though. Do we really want the truth. I would wager that a person who really wanted truth wouldn't just shut down others who presented an idea of what truth us--- they'd just investigate to see whether that person were lying or not. If not, that would imply that a person isn't actually interested in finding truth but suppressing the idea that there is any truth--- something I find very common. Where is the incontestable evidence that Christianity is true? & other religions / spiritual systems are false? This is part of the whole argument, & you must be as aware of all the different sides to all these arguments as i am? i'm not a Christian as i said at the start - so why are you right & i'm wrong?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2020 20:19:03 GMT
Yes indeed. It begs the question, though. Do we really want the truth. I would wager that a person who really wanted truth wouldn't just shut down others who presented an idea of what truth us--- they'd just investigate to see whether that person were lying or not. If not, that would imply that a person isn't actually interested in finding truth but suppressing the idea that there is any truth--- something I find very common. Where is the incontestable evidence that Christianity is true? & other religions / spiritual systems are false? This is part of the whole argument, & you must be as aware of all the different sides to all these arguments as i am? i'm not a Christian as i said at the start - so why are you right & i'm wrong? Do you actually want me to answer? I believe it's actually true. You believe either that there is no truth or that no one can possibly know the truth. But if you believe either of those statements, then you do believe in truth. You believe that not accepting an absolute truth is a more peaceful and enlightened way of thinking than subscribing to a belief system like Christianity. My biggest evidence for Christianity being true, I'd have to say is the record and person of Jesus of Nazareth. Both secular and religious scholars agree that He was a real person from history who was referenced in non-Christian historical writings. He was supposed to be executed and like every other person, stay dead and in his grave. But He didn't. The tomb of His body is empty. He predicted his own execution and resurrection and accomplished both. Jesus' appearance, birthplace, ancestry, and purpose were all predicted in the Old Testament writings by the prophets. Those are some pretty big evidences to start with. I could be lying. I could be misinformed. But if you really want the truth, I say the answer is to investigate, not reject truth altogether.
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Post by Admin on Mar 17, 2020 20:26:35 GMT
I believe it's actually true. Yes you do, & i don't, in an organised religious sense. Not quite - i don't believe that any religion has a monopoly on the truth. i don't follow any specific religion / belief system. & here we are with the whole crux of the basis to Christianity - the notion that the Biblical account of Christ is true. i don't think it's true in a Biblical sense for a number of reasons.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2020 20:31:01 GMT
I believe it's actually true. Yes you do, & i don't, in an organised religious sense. Not quite - i don't believe that any religion has a monopoly on the truth. i don't follow any specific religion / belief system. & here we are with the whole crux of the basis to Christianity - the notion that the Biblical account of Christ is true. i don't think it's true in a Biblical sense for a number of reasons. Why not, then?
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Post by Admin on Mar 17, 2020 20:33:03 GMT
For many reasons concerning the entire story / bible / Christianity. Could just as easily ask you why you rationally believe it's all true?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2020 20:47:20 GMT
For many reasons concerning the entire story / bible / Christianity. Could just as easily ask you why you rationally believe it's all true? The Bible isn't the only historical record of Jesus. Maybe non biblical evidence would be better? I didn't rationally believe all the Bible was true at first. First I had to deal with what I thought of Jesus. If He is simply a spiritual teacher, why did he insist on being the only way to the Father? (John 14:6). If He's just a myth, why did my secular textbook acknowledge Him as an influential historical figure in Jewish history that affects the world today? If He is one of many gods, why did He have the impression that He alone was equal with God? I suppose all of my doubts didn't just immediately go away when I accepted Jesus. But when I yielded to Him, He was no longer just a concept or a philosophy but a relational Person. You can argue a concept away. But you can grow to trust a Person. Through my research and doubts, I simply ended up realizing that I trusted this Person more than all of these concepts and ideas. I started taking the Bible seriously because Jesus does. Now I believe the Bible also because of its wisdom into human nature, gender, life and because of the endless amount of predictions in it that have either already been fulfilled or are being played out in front of our eyes right now. One example is the apostasy of the church in the times before Jesus' return. I can see that many churches are exactly what you hate about organized religion. Because they've departed from the simplicity of the way of Christ and care more about man-made traditions and theologies than following Jesus' teachings. The Bible predicted a falling away and a lack of love. It's happening. But I hope that made sense. I can endlessly debate an idea. But an encounter with a Personal Being... It gets trickier.
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Post by Admin on Mar 17, 2020 20:48:57 GMT
i think that we can state that Christ existed, & that he was a spiritual teacher & a significant figure. Other than that i don't know what we can categorically state about it all? i don't trust the Bible as an accurate text / document, for a number of reasons. Beyond a simple / down to earth story - & many have proposed one - Untold Jesus: The Two Thousand Year Old Secret Book by Grant H. Pealer Is well worth a read & very good example. It is all conjectures of faith / belief.
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Post by Admin on Mar 17, 2020 20:51:16 GMT
But I hope that made sense. I can endlessly debate an idea. But an encounter with a Personal Being... It gets trickier. i don't have such an encounter / connection. It doesn't entirely make sense to me.
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Post by Admin on Mar 17, 2020 20:53:28 GMT
But I hope that made sense. I can endlessly debate an idea. But an encounter with a Personal Being... It gets trickier. i don't have such an encounter / connection. It doesn't entirely make sense to me. i also don't see how it's intrinsically different to the relationship / encounters millions of other people have / do claim with countless other divine Beings / gods?
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