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Post by Admin on Nov 25, 2015 18:12:26 GMT
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Post by snowstorm on Nov 26, 2015 15:34:58 GMT
Yay, good news that this topic is getting some notice, thanks to your efforts.
Interesting comments about true choice in a crisis and Soteria houses at 2:07 and Open Dialogue at 2:11
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Post by Admin on Nov 27, 2015 8:21:03 GMT
Thanks. Will be interested to see what comes of it all?
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Post by snowstorm on Nov 27, 2015 10:37:50 GMT
Well, I fondly hope that there may be a seachange; that compassion, psychosocial approaches, an understanding of spiritual needs and choice would be at the heart of treatment for madness - with medication, if it featured at all, carefully prescribed as a back up only if completely necessary.
In other words, completely turning the process on its head, because even with Early Intervention, at present the medication is prescribed first with any other help offered tagging along behind.
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Post by Admin on Nov 27, 2015 10:46:58 GMT
Well, I fondly hope that there may be a seachange; that compassion, psychosocial approaches, an understanding of spiritual needs and choice would be at the heart of treatment for madness - with medication, if it featured at all, carefully prescribed as a back up only if completely necessary. In other words, completely turning the process on its head, because even with Early Intervention, at present the medication is prescribed first with any other help offered tagging along behind. i hope so too - it needs to be transformed.
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Post by Admin on Nov 27, 2015 16:30:16 GMT
Basically treat people well. Why are mental health difficulties/distress seen as something more to be primarily punished? sites.google.com/site/punishingthepatient/prisonersi try & raise awareness & do what i can to change things, but how do 'we' change everything to a genuinely humane/caring treatment & understanding? Fucked if i know? It's Mad. An insane World.
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Post by snowstorm on Nov 27, 2015 19:50:49 GMT
That's a powerful article. I have had more than my share of punishment at the hands of psychiatric services. I do not know what's wrong with compassionately nursing someone temporarily disabled by psychosis rather than forcing medications upon them as a first step if they don't agree to take the meds themselves straight away.
Then there is the tyranny of having to agree with the psychiatrist that the antipsychotics are making you better, otherwise you are told that you 'lack insight' and you simply don't get out of hospital.
I think that the regular public simply do not know what goes on with forced medication and poor treatment and would be shocked if they did. Maybe little will change until a case goes through the courts fighting for the rights of patients to be given choices and treated more humanely, I don't know?
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Post by Admin on Nov 27, 2015 21:21:40 GMT
That's a powerful article. I have had more than my share of punishment at the hands of psychiatric services. I do not know what's wrong with compassionately nursing someone temporarily disabled by psychosis rather than forcing medications upon them as a first step if they don't agree to take the meds themselves straight away. Then there is the tyranny of having to agree with the psychiatrist that the antipsychotics are making you better, otherwise you are told that you 'lack insight' and you simply don't get out of hospital. I think that the regular public simply do not know what goes on with forced medication and poor treatment and would be shocked if they did. Maybe little will change until a case goes through the courts fighting for the rights of patients to be given choices and treated more humanely, I don't know? i'm surprised that more people don't speak out on it all. & we've had over 60 years of the pharmacological revolution & millions of people having this treatment Globally. i'm Not sure that the general public really cares? & in context there are myriad injustices in this World. The treatment of the Mad has always been pretty abysmal. i spent some time researching the state of things hundreds of years ago in relation to it all - in essence it's still all the same issues.
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Post by snowstorm on Nov 27, 2015 22:16:21 GMT
i'm surprised that more people don't speak out on it all. & we've had over 60 years of the pharmacological revolution & millions of people having this treatment Globally. i'm Not sure that the general public really cares? & in context there are myriad injustices in this World. I think that the general public could care, because it really could happen to any one of them at any time. I'm just thinking back to pre-hospital days and I didn't know anything about psychosis, I didn't know what the word meant. All I knew was what I'd seen in films and media, like the profoundly shocking 'One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest.' Re. speaking out - probably some people can't speak out, just don't have the capacity- and then there is the stigma. It's easier to stay quiet sometimes, even though it's a burning issue.
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Post by Admin on Nov 27, 2015 23:21:02 GMT
I think that the general public could care, because it really could happen to any one of them at any time. I'm just thinking back to pre-hospital days and I didn't know anything about psychosis, I didn't know what the word meant. All I knew was what I'd seen in films and media, like the profoundly shocking 'One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest.' Re. speaking out - probably some people can't speak out, just don't have the capacity- and then there is the stigma. It's easier to stay quiet sometimes, even though it's a burning issue. i've been met generally with such a lot of misunderstanding, denial, invalidation & trivialisation in my life, & often reacted to with annoyance & anger around certain things. i don't think that most people have a clue. i don't mean to sound 'special' in saying this - i've Not met anyone ever who i feel genuinely understands, But then we're all individuals & unique. There are similarities with people, & i suppose there is some continuity with what comes under psychosis/schizophrenia. i have one friend who has suffered a lot, a lot older, & she seems to have the most respectful understanding in ways. Mainly i feel a gulf between me & other people. There are some correlations with other people that have been through psychosis, but there also seems to be significant differences as well. Generally i've been very outspoken in my life & on-line in discussing what i do. i've come under a lot of fire for trying to discuss more comprehensive/integral understandings & approaches to mental health, being critical of the system & in favour of alternatives, & few seem to have had any general agreement. Bits here & there. i don't know what it is with people? There are so many polemics & differing opinions/pov in all this area. i find it impossible to come to a deeper resolution/acceptance of the original experience that i had - it continually goes round & round in my head, & in ways is as mysterious now as it was then. My life was instantly transformed 25 years ago & has never been the same. Words don't seem able to explain/describe it all properly. Who exactly knows what the inner subjective World/Universe & experience/life path of another is really like? Without living it, & we can only live our own life. i feel that life is a great mystery.
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Post by Admin on Nov 28, 2015 7:01:20 GMT
Regardless of the justifications/rationalisations of it all - mainstream society, the mental health system/psychiatry generally always has & does dish out some very brutal treatment. Some people seem to get better treatment than others, & say how much it helped them, but is it all really that enlightened & reasonable?
Unless someone has been in a genuinely very extreme state of mind & forced sectioned/forced drugged/treated - then i think they have little to no idea of what it all entails.
i had a lot of difficulties in ways, especially from around the age of 11 - i needed more in the way of understanding & support. i got into drink/drugs - age 17 i went into a very severe psychosis - i was beaten up, arrested numerous times, then violently sectioned, put on a locked ward, held down & injected with drugs & put in strong/isolation rooms multiple times (a bare brick room with a mattress in the middle of the floor) - The unit was housed in one of the old Victorian Asylums. Was forced to take a lot of psychiatric drugs. Had to lie & act like a pro to get out - & then chucked out, fully discharged & abandoned back into the community. Also believe that i was seriously sexually abused/raped during that first hospitalisation by staff, for a number of reasons.
No psychological help, no follow up, no support. A serious suicide attempt age 21 during another severe psychosis & sectioned again. Too much to try & explain with everything that has gone on - But never any genuine acknowledgement of the barbarity of the treatment & lack of any appropriate understanding, help or support. Continual denial, invalidation & trivialisation. Never any proper/appropriate psychological help.
i wouldn't deny that plenty of people have it worse. But i don't understand how more people can't see it all for what it is - largely a system of violence & abuse.
Was brutalised by my difficulties & then brutalised by the system, & am left pretty fucked up in ways by it all.
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Post by snowstorm on Nov 28, 2015 12:36:05 GMT
Unless someone has been in a genuinely very extreme state of mind & forced sectioned/forced drugged/treated - then i think they have little to no idea of what it all entails. No psychological help, no follow up, no support. A serious suicide attempt age 21 during another severe psychosis & sectioned again. Too much to try & explain with everything that has gone on - But never any genuine acknowledgement of the barbarity of the treatment & lack of any appropriate understanding, help or support. Continual denial, invalidation & trivialisation. Never any proper/appropriate psychological help. Yes, I completely agree that unless you have been through it, you cannot understand how traumatic psychosis is and how deeply inhumane the treatment can be. I suppose that if it you were 17 now and it happened you would have been dealt with by Early Intervention for 3 years. But as described elsewhere, I think they have got it back to front, with the medication prescribed first and the rest of the help tagged on to that. Plus there is no mention of any spiritual needs a person may have and understanding they may need with that. Also, what about if you are over 35 when it happens - or just need help after having been a victim of the system? Talk about gap in the provision, its ridiculous. I am truly sad that you were so horrifically treated. I don't know if those who are trying to work in the Mental Health field have a psychological assessment first, but they should have, to try and weed out those who are more interested in control that compassion. Such assessments are common when you join a big business, they should be mandatory in mental health. Talking about psychosis, I think that just as there are many causes, so there are different levels of psychosis. It's all very individual as you say. The question is, how best to fully process it, so that it ceases to torture - and that is the difficulty.
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Post by Admin on Nov 29, 2015 12:57:06 GMT
Talking about psychosis, I think that just as there are many causes, so there are different levels of psychosis. It's all very individual as you say. The question is, how best to fully process it, so that it ceases to torture - and that is the difficulty. Finding a deeper resolution to it all is difficult. There are some who appear to. As well as all the different pathways into psychosis & these difficulties, there would appear to be a lot of pathways out as well. i do feel that a lot also depends on what levels of understanding & support people have & their overall circumstances. For all the different polemics around psychiatry & medication - i do accept the diagnosis, condition & medication. i have always sought more in the way of understanding & support - i have done & do my best with the resources that are available. A lot of the progress, healing & recovery has come from me, & i wonder if primarily it's down to me to sort out? i've found it hard to find a deeper understanding with people.
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Post by snowstorm on Nov 29, 2015 17:10:34 GMT
i have always sought more in the way of understanding & support - i have done & do my best with the resources that are available. A lot of the progress, healing & recovery has come from me, & i wonder if primarily it's down to me to sort out? i've found it hard to find a deeper understanding with people. With psychosis, I do think that most of the healing comes from oneself. Only you know all the aspects of what you've been through, so only you can reframe them in a way that makes sense to yourself. However the support (psychosocial etc.) is vital to help attain some kind of psychological stability while dealing with the psychosis. The meds can be a support, but they don't process the problem. It is so much more difficult as well if you live in challenging circumstances, because you need safety and support to do this.
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