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Post by snowstorm on Jul 2, 2021 20:36:41 GMT
I think the internet can be very divisive, full of mistakes and half truths/ mistruths - it's a social experiment.
This project/forum is to me an appeal for better treatment for people who suffer mental health issues, hopefully we can agree on that, by looking at all sorts of information from all sorts of places.
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Post by Admin on Jul 2, 2021 21:00:56 GMT
I think the internet can be very divisive, full of mistakes and half truths/ mistruths - it's a social experiment. This project/forum is to me an appeal for better treatment for people who suffer mental health issues, hopefully we can agree on that, by looking at all sorts of information from all sorts of places. There has been some 3 thousand years of dissent with the system / revolutions that have fundamentally changed nothing. There has been 500 years of intrinsically all the same arguments around health & social issues. The question of what to do about 'madness' within civilization is as old as civilization itself. i have tried to appeal for better treatment for people who suffer mental health issues, but people do not agree on how that should be done. 20 years of my campaigning, & this forum is a Gnats fart in the Grand scheme of things.
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Post by Admin on Jul 3, 2021 4:34:50 GMT
Have to laugh but you have already broken the new rule with a post on New Age and Neopagan Magic, surely? :-) Admittedly it is not here in spiritual approaches - ! Should we simply have no rules? Allow evangelical / fundamentalist Preaching / proselytizing & born again Christians telling people that they are going to Hell unless they believe in Christ. Spammers if they want to promote whatever they are selling. The far right. Etc. No one else wants to help moderate / manage the forum, no one else wants to campaign around the forum vision / project goals, most people interested in the project won't even agree to the project; the vast majority of people that have been interested in this forum are Christians trying to convert me. Why do i have to continually try & accommodate Christians when they have endless other places to post on-line & i have clearly stated that the project is secular / non religious? Open to all religions & none. Why does everything always have to be about this argument over religion? Why is it always largely Christians that have all the issues / problems with everything? In regards to this project what do you suggest that the rules be & aims / goals of the project? Psychiatry & the mental health system / treatment isn't changing, all the same arguments around all this area aren't changing. The same trends & arguments in society aren't changing. As already discussed on the forum, all the main agendas / camps aren't changing in their respect beliefs / positions.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2021 6:53:47 GMT
Well just ban Christians then.
Sorry for deleting posts, it was affecting my sleep. Should not have looked at forum in middle of the night! My brain started churning an answer and I thought had upset you as well. Can only apologise.
If having Christians on here is a problem then don’t let them join. If they cause all the upset and arguments and that’s all it takes for things to be resolved. There are other places people can talk about Christian experiences online.
It is discriminatory but it is up to the Admin(s) who is allowed on ultimately and you could put it in forum rules for joining. Ask questions before joining people up.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2021 8:48:49 GMT
Best to live and let live and if people want to condemn others for their beliefs then that is crossing a line of disrespect and possibly hurt or upset. & how many times have you & other Christians put down Atheism / Paganism / Magick / New Age / Eastern Philosophy & the Self realization teachings etc? It's part of the Christian religion to state that Christ is God, the only way to God is Christ, that the Bible is the Word of God, & that the esoteric / occult / magick / Pagan etc areas & other religions are fundamentally wrong. It is part of Christianity to convert others to a belief in Christ, & that anyone that doesn't agree is going to Hell, as well as other beliefs concerning Satan / Demons & the Apocalypse etc. I can’t speak for others but I don’t put down other beliefs whether I disagree with them or not. Discussing isn’t the same as putting them down. Maybe best not to discuss beliefs of individual religions further or will go off topic and there is a ban on talking about it anyway. The point is if you think Christians are causing arguments then if that’s what solves all the problems banning them is the answer. I won’t be offended, is kind of part of the deal anyway for anyone who is a Christian to be unpopular regardless of personal faith and actions and if my or others’ presence cause upset on here then fair enough.
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Post by Admin on Jul 3, 2021 9:53:02 GMT
I can’t speak for others but I don’t put down other beliefs whether I disagree with them or not. Discussing isn’t the same as putting them down. Maybe best not to discuss beliefs of individual religions further or will go off topic and there is a ban on talking about it anyway. The point is if you think Christians are causing arguments then if that’s what solves all the problems banning them is the answer. I won’t be offended, is kind of part of the deal anyway for anyone who is a Christian to be unpopular regardless of personal faith and actions and if my or others’ presence cause upset on here then fair enough. Christianity is the World's largest religion - there are 2.5 billion Christians in the world today, it is the state religion in the UK / USA & numerous other countries, the Vatican / Catholicism dominates this civilization - it's not like anyone doesn't know what Christians believe? It is hardly unpopular. Atheists / Humanists & the non religious / people of who follow other religions / spirituality are far more targeted & unpopular. Most of my on-line discussions & news feeds over the past 20 years have been about the argument over the truth of Christianity. i was raised very strict Church of England, read a lot on the Christian religion, i don't need to endlessly hear about it all - the World is dominated by the arguments (& Wars) within & around the Abrahamic Faiths. i think it's entirely reasonable to be critical of organized religions. i think it's entirely reasonable to not want proselytizing & the same endless arguments on what religion is the true religion on a mental health forum, read by a number of highly vulnerable people, a lot of whom may well be suffering religious delusions. i think it's entirely reasonable for people to be Atheist / humanist / non religious or to follow other religions / spirituality than Christianity, & given the past 2,500 year history of the Abrahamic faiths to be very highly critical of them all, & be allowed to freely explore other paths & practices. Was / am quite happy for people to discuss whatever they like without trying to convert others, but you know that isn't what has been happening. This idea that Christians are being persecuted more than anyone else in largely White Christian Western Democracies, because a few people question their religion is simply utter nonsense, as is the idea that Christians have always been persecuted. Try Not being Exoteric Christian & discussing non religious spirituality, the esoteric / occult / magic, Pagan / Shamanic / Mystic etc & see how you get treated!? Or try being Atheist & see what the reactions are to you.
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Post by Admin on Jul 3, 2021 10:10:54 GMT
Well just ban Christians then. Why does so much of the trouble in all these areas always center around Christianity? & Christians wanting dominance of their religion as being exclusive & ultimate truth? & woe betide anyone that questions it all & their religion. How is endless religious debate & discussion & proselytizing healthy for the severely mentally ill, especially for people with schizophrenia / psychosis & often suffering serious religious delusions? & trying to convince people suffering schizophrenia that it's all or in large part a religious / spiritual problem, & can be resolved with Christianity? As far as possible i think it is better to ban all religious / spiritual discussion on the forum - there are endless other places people can discus & read up on it all. There are endless places people can proselytize / preach online & in society & practice their faith, especially within a Western secular democracy. You know as well as i do some of what has gone on on-line over the past 20 years around all these areas & on & off this forum around it all, despite my repeated attempt to stop the proselytizing, & create boundaries.
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Post by snowstorm on Jul 3, 2021 11:31:50 GMT
Should we simply have no rules? Allow evangelical / fundamentalist Preaching / proselytizing & born again Christians telling people that they are going to Hell unless they believe in Christ. Spammers if they want to promote whatever they are selling. The far right. Etc. No one else wants to help moderate / manage the forum, no one else wants to campaign around the forum vision / project goals, most people interested in the project won't even agree to the project; the vast majority of people that have been interested in this forum are Christians trying to convert me. Why do i have to continually try & accommodate Christians when they have endless other places to post on-line & i have clearly stated that the project is secular / non religious? Open to all religions & none. Why does everything always have to be about this argument over religion? Why is it always largely Christians that have all the issues / problems with everything? In regards to this project what do you suggest that the rules be & aims / goals of the project? Psychiatry & the mental health system / treatment isn't changing, all the same arguments around all this area aren't changing. The same trends & arguments in society aren't changing. As already discussed on the forum, all the main agendas / camps aren't changing in their respect beliefs / positions. Of course we don't want spammers, proselytizing or extremists on the forum. Obviously things have happened off forum that were not obvious to me and that has helped you make up your mind about this. There have been small changes, e.g. trials of Open Dialogue and calls for a more holistic approach to mental distress from the UN and WHO this June, it is just everything is monumentally slow; www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psychiatry-through-the-looking-glass/202106/who-and-un-join-calls-transcend-the-medical-model"A fundamental shift within the mental health field is required, in order to end this current situation. This means rethinking policies, laws, systems, services and practices across the different sectors which negatively affect people with mental health conditions and psychosocial disabilities, ensuring that human rights underpin all actions in the field of mental health. In the mental health service context specifically, this means a move towards more balanced, person-centered, holistic, and recovery-oriented practices that consider people in the context of their whole lives, respecting their will and preferences in treatment, implementing alternatives to coercion, and promoting people’s right to participation and community inclusion." Certainly arguing about mental health without moving forward is a waste of (precious) time.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2021 11:34:11 GMT
Well just ban Christians then. As far as possible i think it is better to ban all religious / spiritual discussion on the forum - there are endless other places people can discus & read up on it all. There are endless places people can proselytize / preach online & in society & practice their faith, especially within a Western secular democracy. Well I would feel bad personally if my existence on this forum was causing no one to be able to talk about things they wanted to; if the problem is Christians and Christians, ban the problem and let others talk about what they want. It might be best from my perspective to leave the forum and if that sorts things then is ok. If other Christians are members is up to them if they want to leave. People should not be stopped from talking about something just in case a member says something which triggers them or worsens their mental health. The thing is I don't think explaining mental health problems from a spiritual perspective is just confined to Christians and indeed a lot of Christians do see them as a medical issue or something else, and some see it as multifactorial or more holistic. But if only Christians instigate issues on here and trigger people then is clear what has to happen imo, I don't think from what has already been said here that that is necessarily the case. I find some non Christian things triggering and sometimes aspects of the Bible as well but I try and avoid them, not to go into detail but the point is everyone has their triggers and things that upset them. I don't read it if it gets to me. Maybe it is about taking responsibility for one's own mental health and learning to avoid triggers? If that avoids banning the subject completely. I am happy to leave if that solves the problem. But would think it is more complicated than that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2021 11:53:15 GMT
Should we simply have no rules? Allow evangelical / fundamentalist Preaching / proselytizing & born again Christians telling people that they are going to Hell unless they believe in Christ. Spammers if they want to promote whatever they are selling. The far right. Etc. No one else wants to help moderate / manage the forum, no one else wants to campaign around the forum vision / project goals, most people interested in the project won't even agree to the project; the vast majority of people that have been interested in this forum are Christians trying to convert me. Why do i have to continually try & accommodate Christians when they have endless other places to post on-line & i have clearly stated that the project is secular / non religious? Open to all religions & none. Why does everything always have to be about this argument over religion? Why is it always largely Christians that have all the issues / problems with everything? In regards to this project what do you suggest that the rules be & aims / goals of the project? Psychiatry & the mental health system / treatment isn't changing, all the same arguments around all this area aren't changing. The same trends & arguments in society aren't changing. As already discussed on the forum, all the main agendas / camps aren't changing in their respect beliefs / positions. Of course we don't want spammers, proselytizing or extremists on the forum. Obviously things have happened off forum that were not obvious to me and that has helped you make up your mind about this. Well, that would be at least partly my fault although I don't consider myself an extremist. Is best to draw a line under it all, but can see all the issues this has caused and can only apologise for that. Long story short, I crossed a boundary that shouldn't have been crossed and it caused understandable upset. It won't happen again and I do feel guilty about it all, but this thread and current problem is basically down to me in a lot of ways and have engaged in it to try and avoid any possibly unnecessary decisions from happening, it would be a lot easier if I just left tbh and then things can go back to as they were. Have been a member on here before as well but I thought people didn't want me there so left, then rejoined under a different name. But I didn't join at any point to try and convert anyone, I just wanted to post re mental health really: my conversion to Christianity has been quite recent. That's the truth of it all. Did not want to cause hurt or upset but I did and as such was kind and gracious of Admin to allow me to stay on the forum but I don't feel it's a good idea.
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Post by Admin on Jul 3, 2021 12:53:47 GMT
Well I would feel bad personally if my existence on this forum was causing no one to be able to talk about things they wanted to; if the problem is Christians and Christians, ban the problem and let others talk about what they want. i believe in one God / Source / Great Spirit - One Light - Spiritual Realms & Realities & the Soul / Psyche. i believe that Christ probably did exist & was a Great Mystic & deeply loving & spiritual. However - there is a lot that i do not agree with about the past 2 thousand years of Christianity, the Bible & organized religion. Religions & areas of spirituality have been immensely problematic for me having been diagnosed with & suffering with a diagnosis of severe schizophrenia; typified by religious delusions. Very few people ever have posted here & most don't stay long. Mainly it has been me collecting articles on various areas / aspects of mental health & current affairs. There are going to be disagreements & arguments - especially over religions / politics & socioeconomics, as well as other areas, as there is in society & all over the internet. i still haven't heard any real & practical suggestions about how all this can be resolved?
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Post by Admin on Jul 3, 2021 12:56:52 GMT
Well I would feel bad personally if my existence on this forum was causing no one to be able to talk about things they wanted to; if the problem is Christians and Christians, ban the problem and let others talk about what they want. Part of the problem is what is Christianity & Christians? Christianity & Christians can't even agree on any of it themselves.
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Post by snowstorm on Jul 3, 2021 14:53:13 GMT
Religions & areas of spirituality have been immensely problematic for me having been diagnosed with & suffering with a diagnosis of severe schizophrenia; typified by religious delusions. Very few people ever have posted here & most don't stay long. Mainly it has been me collecting articles on various areas / aspects of mental health & current affairs. There are going to be disagreements & arguments - especially over religions / politics & socioeconomics, as well as other areas, as there is in society & all over the internet. i still haven't heard any real & practical suggestions about how all this can be resolved? True, it would be difficult to post as many articles as you have done. There have been contributors along the way though and a lot of them have mentioned about their psychosis experiences and spiritual themes to do with that. It's up to you but perhaps this should be allowed in the experiences section. People's personal faith/beliefs about religion/spirituality in the wider context would stay their own affair.
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Post by snowstorm on Jul 3, 2021 14:59:11 GMT
@noangel, last time I looked it's ok to talk about mental health here, no need to keep deleting this and that.
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Post by Admin on Jul 3, 2021 15:11:23 GMT
True, it would be difficult to post as many articles as you have done. There have been contributors along the way though and a lot of them have mentioned about their psychosis experiences and spiritual themes to do with that. It's up to you but perhaps this should be allowed in the experiences section. People's personal faith/beliefs about religion/spirituality in the wider context would stay their own affair. That sounds reasonable - if people want to discuss their own personal faith / beliefs / experiences from a subjective perspective then fair enough, without trying to convert / proselytize others, acting like they know others better than other people know themselves, & telling other people how everything is & what they should do / think etc. Sick of it all.
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