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Post by wynona on Feb 6, 2021 0:07:29 GMT
Beyond a very basic contemplative practice & trying as far as possible to be a decent human being i'm a bit fed up of the entire area. Am content to simply live life as far as possible as a 'normal' human being, & just forget (as far as possible) about all the areas of mental health / psychiatry, religions & spirituality etc, & stop trying to work it all out, make sense of things, & spend the same amount of reading / research / effort within all these areas. As with so many other areas, no one agrees on it all, & everyone is a unique individual with different subjective inner World, different perceptions, different life experience & different circumstances / opinions. Have collected over 1 thousand books on it all - posted reams of information on it all on this forum. It's enough with it all. There is no categorical answer - it's just a play of life / existence. Sick of it all by now?
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Post by wynona on Feb 6, 2021 0:09:54 GMT
Even though answers about life can elude us, I think we all have a drive to seek a deeper meaning in life.
Still, knowledge alone isn't enough. We naturally want a conclusion. And purpose as well.
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Post by Admin on Feb 6, 2021 0:29:29 GMT
Even though answers about life can elude us, I think we all have a drive to seek a deeper meaning in life. Still, knowledge alone isn't enough. We naturally want a conclusion. And purpose as well. What can i say about it all? It makes sense to me that there is something about awareness / consciousness, the Zen / non duality areas, etc. To me the forms / religions / spiritual systems / religious figures / words & dogmas, 'Holy' books, Mythologies / traditions, cosmologies, rituals etc don't really matter. Pagan, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, New Age - whatever. Beyond being kind & peaceful & a decent human being i couldn't really care what belief system someone has.
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Post by Admin on Feb 6, 2021 1:20:00 GMT
I can agree on two fronts. A) I do think that there is wisdom in more than just one religion. I think thats the reason why many of them line up in so many ways. I believe that humans can get spiritual revelation from the world around them. B) I do believe we all have divinity in us. I believe you can see it in everyone, regardless of their beliefs. As far as we categorically know & can prove - all the religions / spirituality / theories aside - There is a physical Universe / Cosmos & 3D life here on Earth, for which we have some basic / rudimentary scientific understanding (& which we are also systematically destroying), beyond that it is all surmising. If ALL life is Divine & Sacred then i think it's about time humanity sorted itself out with regard to the actual life we know of on the planet; clean up all the mess & start living in harmony with nature & each other.
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Post by Admin on Feb 6, 2021 1:40:49 GMT
Beyond doing our best to be decent people i just think that so much of everything is largely Bullshit. A largely pretty backward / uncivilized / unadvanced / barbaric civilization with a largely 'Neanderthal' / barbarian mentality species dominating & destroying the planet in an obscure backwater of the Milky Way. A civilization / species whose days i think are ending. i don't think that i'd have the same issues that i have with Christianity if Christians were like Christ - But they're not like Christ. But we're back with the same argument / debate / questions about what religion(s) / spirituality is.
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Post by Admin on Feb 6, 2021 2:31:05 GMT
Im also curious as to the origins of this concept and if anyone has achieved this state and what they teach. Christ reached this state & taught non duality, loving kindness, peace & compassionate service to all life. Rama, Krishna, Hermes, Moses, Orpheus, Pythagoras, Plato, Buddha were Great Initiates as well as others. Carl Jung, Roberto Assagioli, Isaac Newton & many others i think have been high level initiates. Within a more contemporary context - Adyashanti, Ramana Maharshi, Helena Blavatsky, Alice Bailey, Zinovia Dushkova, Mahavatar Babaji, Boris Mouravieff, Bede Griffiths, Anthony de Mello, Walter Russell, Robert Adams, Tellis Papastavro & others.
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Post by Admin on Feb 6, 2021 5:41:48 GMT
i think the question as to the similarities & differences of all non ordinary states as described / categorised as to the psychoses / spiritual crisis & emergence / shamanism / mysticism / psychedelic & entheogen experience etc is a highly individual, in depth & complex question, with a massive amount of variables. It is a near on impossible question to answer. How do you answer or quantify such a question? Around 17 years ago i found some degree of solace within the inter life areas of research, now i think that can wait until physical death. Over recent years it has been more the study of the Magickal traditions & science that has helped. After my foray into politics over the past 10 years i am again utterly disillusioned with it all. i still think that we should evolve beyond money / politics / religions / poverty / war. But i don't know what to think about a lot of things now - i tend to feel that we are a failed species & this civilization is going inexorably down the plug hole. i try & focus on simply accepting & observing everything as it is - good, bad & indifferent - wherever it all leads, there is nothing that i can really do about it all. i try & focus on my own survival & being there for those who are close to me, & doing my best to practice universal spiritual principles - as best as i can, doing what i can to be kind, peaceful, forgiving, non judgmental (very hard) & of compassionate service to others where i can be. i think that there are a lot of complexities as to what comes under my diagnosis of schizophrenia & the medication / treatment. i'm fed up of all the controversy / debate with it all, & how a lot of people are. i don't wish them ill but i'm not keen on a lot of people, most of the time i would far rather be quiet, peaceful & in solitude within my own space. Anything can be & is argued in relation to mental health & spirituality - it's tautological. i have been told anything & everything in relation to it all to the point that it all seems like nonsense. i don't want to hear it all any more & i expect that psychiatry / science is largely correct about it all that it's dealing with highly complex biological / brain conditions, & areas that as of yet we do not have a more complete understanding, due to the amount of complexity with these conditions, & individual variables involved. i suppose the point as well is in how the 'mentally ill' / 'mad' are treated within this society / system. The myriad responses / reactions / treatments / opinions / suggestions to my condition / experiences / life / circumstances & who i am would be enough to drive anyone insane in itself, regardless of any underlying condition. The entire society / system is a totally fragmented mess in the way it's treats health & social issues / areas, & a mine field to navigate. As i say, i observe & read / research things, however a lot of things i try & 'forget' - & simply plod on as best as possible with as 'normal' a life as possible, whatever normal is. i'm not sure that there is anything particularly normal about anything / anyone.
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Post by Admin on Feb 6, 2021 6:02:43 GMT
If Christ consciousness is separate from Christianity and Jesus, why is it called Christ Consciousness? Im also curious as to the origins of this concept and if anyone has achieved this state and what they teach. Certainly Gnosis far predates Christianity, as do a lot of the ideas in the Bible. Here are some words from 'Enlightened' teachers - healingsanctuary.proboards.com/thread/5559/true-nature?page=1Adyashanti; a Zen practitioner, i think is the best 'Self realization' teacher that i have come across in explaining all of these areas in simple & easy to understand terms. www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgtOL9kl7fc&list=PLFE7393DF6D43D70FIt is described as a state of Being / Awareness / Consciousness 'beyond' the mind / ego.
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Post by Admin on Feb 6, 2021 11:50:29 GMT
Even though answers about life can elude us, I think we all have a drive to seek a deeper meaning in life. Still, knowledge alone isn't enough. We naturally want a conclusion. And purpose as well. i'm not in any way what would be considered to be 'Enlightened'. & for all of the World's knowledge - comparative religions, spirituality, philosophy & science, i'm not convinced that we have any more of an idea as to categorical answers / conclusions to certain questions / areas. Lots of interesting areas, but i think that Life is still the same Mystery that it always has been. i find it impossible to latch onto / believe one belief / conclusion / explanation on it all over another. i have tried to live the life that i am in as fully as possible, which has been complicated & messed up by what has been diagnosed as severe schizophrenia. It doesn't seem right to have the planetary science, technology & resources that we do & not be willing to sort out the Global problems that we have. You can't really prove anything in World religions / spirituality. You can't either really prove anything about the nature of awareness / consciousness or soul. & the World / Civilization / society / culture / system remains the way it is.
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Post by Admin on Feb 6, 2021 12:35:39 GMT
And do you think psychosis is sort of like a spiritual awakening? i still tend to think what i always have done - that within a genuinely civilized & advanced society / system / civilization, with comprehensive integrated health & social care systems - within a highly comprehensive / integral paradigm, understanding & approach to psychosis / mental illness & all related areas - Most people i think could be helped to a far higher level of healing, wellness & functioning / recovery, & in a majority of cases i would expect medication free. The problem, as with everything else, is implementing such systems of integrated health & social care & comprehensive therapeutic mental health treatment.
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Post by Admin on Feb 6, 2021 12:44:30 GMT
i'm sick of all the argument / conflict / violence / war / suffering / hatreds / division / inequality that religion causes. God Is Not Great en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Is_Not_GreatGod Is Not Great (sometimes stylized as god is not Great)[1] is a 2007 book by British-American author and journalist Christopher Hitchens, in which he makes a case against organized religion. It was originally published in the United Kingdom by Atlantic Books as God Is Not Great: The Case Against Religion and in the United States by Twelve as God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything, but was republished by Atlantic Books in 2017 with no subtitle. Hitchens posited that organized religion is "violent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism, tribalism, and bigotry, invested in ignorance and hostile to free inquiry, contemptuous of women and coercive toward children" and sectarian, and that accordingly it "ought to have a great deal on its conscience". He supports his position with a mixture of personal stories, documented historical anecdotes and critical analysis of religious texts. His commentary focuses mainly on the Abrahamic religions, although it also touches on other religions, such as Hinduism and Buddhism. The book received mixed reviews, with some critics noting its historical inaccuracies, but it sold well.
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Post by Chimera on Feb 6, 2021 14:35:42 GMT
It is a near on impossible question to answer. How do you answer or quantify such a question? […] I replied to this interesting and highly complex post at some length, but my reply is entirely off the topic of this thread, so I have posted it here: A long response to a short post by Admin.
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Post by wynona on Feb 6, 2021 15:50:27 GMT
Beyond doing our best to be decent people i just think that so much of everything is largely Bullshit. A largely pretty backward / uncivilized / unadvanced / barbaric civilization with a largely 'Neanderthal' / barbarian mentality species dominating & destroying the planet in an obscure backwater of the Milky Way. A civilization / species whose days i think are ending. i don't think that i'd have the same issues that i have with Christianity if Christians were like Christ - But they're not like Christ. But we're back with the same argument / debate / questions about what religion(s) / spirituality is. To live up to Christ is not an easy thing. We're to return blessing for cursing, for example. I don't see a lot of people doing that. However, to see someone truly live it out is a beautiful thing. Ive see someone truly love their enemies before. I wish it happened more often since it was the thing that destroyed all of my presuppositions about the faith. If we truly loved like Jesus loved, I do think we'd have a lot less people jaded about it all. As far as organized religion being violent and oppressive, I can see a case for that. However, Id say that the reason its so terrible is that it falls short of what we instinctively know is truly moral--- love your neighbor as yourself. As for the idea that know one can know the truth, I disagree. I think if one remains hungry for truth, they'll find it. My opinion is that there is genuine evidence to back the historicity and truth of Christianity. My opinion is that, if there were no absolute truth, than there would be no reason to try and be a good person as opposed to a bad one. What makes one good or bad? Well we know. There are things that everybody knows. And that some things are good and some are bad. Just because people will not agree on everything, doesn't mean that theres any less truth out there. People do not agree Christianity is true. But it can either be true or false, just like any other belief. To say that no one knows the truth is in itself, a truth claim. No matter how postmodern philosophy says that everything is relative, we automatically think and operate in absolutes. I think when we make everything relative to each person's experience, that we dull our innate desire for truth because we then say, "that's your opinion/your experience". No! Everybody's ideas cannot be true at once. Let's investigate each idea thoroughly. Let me make a case and you make yours. Peace is not about everybody agreeing all the time. That is unrealistic. True peace comes from learning to respect the humanity of those who disagree with you completely and still being able to have a civil discussion with mutual respect.
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Post by Admin on Feb 6, 2021 16:05:31 GMT
Peace is not about everybody agreeing all the time. That is unrealistic. True peace comes from learning to respect the humanity of those who disagree with you completely and still being able to have a civil discussion with mutual respect. How does that work with fascists / terrorists / extremists? Hell bent on the fanatical ideological hatred of & death & destruction of other groups / people. What is the ultimate ultimate? What is the full extent of truth & reality? You can really argue that anything is, & every religion argues that theirs is the one true religion. i think the best bet is to allow full human rights & religious / spiritual freedoms within a multi cultural secular democracy for all people. That still doesn't seem to have worked however.
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Post by Admin on Feb 6, 2021 16:32:23 GMT
If we truly loved like Jesus loved, I do think we'd have a lot less people jaded about it all. There's the rub isn't it - i look at the Abrahamic faiths & religions in general & a lot of it all doesn't appear to have been very loving, bar a small percentage of religious / spiritual figures. i don't really see any relevance either to the religion / lack of religion in being loving. i am sure that there have been & are loving & decent Atheists / Secular humanists & loving people of all religions & none. What has been happening with the Evangelicals in the USA i think is truly shocking, but it is patterns that have appeared throughout history. Why do you need a religion to hold to the existence of a God / Source / Great Spirit of infinite love, wisdom & perfection (& is that the Christian / Abrahamic God?) - spiritual realms & realities & the soul / psyche? Or to be 'Self / God' realized. Or to go back to the OP - to have a Unity / Cosmic / Christ / Krishna / Buddha Nature / Consciousness etc?
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