Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2021 10:57:00 GMT
[quote source="/post/33429/thread" Yes - that does appear to be some of what goes on. i have a somewhat conflicted view with religions. I doubt if anyone has come to be a Christian from being told they need to convert or burn. Or not many anyway, not in this day and age. Something that appears at once frightening and oppressive isn't attractive. For me it was meeting someone completely humble, loving, forgiving and kind, who had given their life to the service of others and had lots of wisdom, and who saw good in me when I couldn't see it in myself. They gave me chances I didn't feel I deserve. They are the most Christ like person I know and I was immediately in awe of them. That's also how I chose the Church I attend, by what they talk about, how loving and kind they are and they have been very encouraging towards me. God has also (through them) been a source of comfort and encouragement, and shown His loving, empathetic and understanding nature towards me and others. They've all been very non judgemental and given what I have discussed with them very open minded. I have discussed my mh experiences and nobody saw that as any issue because they do try to be as Christ like as they can be. Incidentally they don't seem to espouse the mindset of Trump and have no issue with the vaccine or mask wearing, etc. They would say that US Christians have a different way of thinking about things, but they don't share their beliefs. I hope this is not seen as proselytising, is just to affirm what you were saying, lots of good people in the Church (and yes bad as in all walks of life and of all beliefs), and of course the convert/burn approach does not help.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2021 10:58:38 GMT
Okay Admin. Roger that! Youve gotten better with it all. I appreciate it If your religion works for you & makes you & happy & loving person, then fair enough. i don't however want this project to primarily be about religions. Think it's best to leave it at that then.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jun 21, 2021 13:26:13 GMT
Yes - that does appear to be some of what goes on. i have a somewhat conflicted view with religions. I doubt if anyone has come to be a Christian from being told they need to convert or burn. Or not many anyway, not in this day and age. Something that appears at once frightening and oppressive isn't attractive. For me it was meeting someone completely humble, loving, forgiving and kind, who had given their life to the service of others and had lots of wisdom, and who saw good in me when I couldn't see it in myself. They gave me chances I didn't feel I deserve. They are the most Christ like person I know and I was immediately in awe of them. That's also how I chose the Church I attend, by what they talk about, how loving and kind they are and they have been very encouraging towards me. God has also (through them) been a source of comfort and encouragement, and shown His loving, empathetic and understanding nature towards me and others. They've all been very non judgemental and given what I have discussed with them very open minded. I have discussed my mh experiences and nobody saw that as any issue because they do try to be as Christ like as they can be. Incidentally they don't seem to espouse the mindset of Trump and have no issue with the vaccine or mask wearing, etc. They would say that US Christians have a different way of thinking about things, but they don't share their beliefs. I hope this is not seen as proselytising, is just to affirm what you were saying, lots of good people in the Church (and yes bad as in all walks of life and of all beliefs), and of course the convert/burn approach does not help. No doubt - some people of all religions / spiritual systems & traditions & none are genuinely unconditionally loving, kind, humble, compassionate, understanding, forgiving & genuinely embody what i would see as a Self / God realization / universal spiritual principles. The issue to me is that i don't see what being a decent person & being 'Self / God' realized has to do with any particular religion / belief system? Unconditional love for all life is universal. Spiritual principles are Universal. The attributes of all the Great Avatars / Initiates / Saints / Sages / Shaman / Infinite Souls / Mahatmas etc from all religions / traditions embody remarkably similar traits. It's this issue of Beliefs within the World religions i take issue with. i have my own understanding of God / Source / Great Spirit - spiritual realms & realities - the Soul / Psyche - why do i have to conform to some pre set religion / 'holy' book / Belief system that other humans have created? As soon as religion / spirituality is put down as words / laws / 'Holy' books / Beliefs / organised religions / rituals - then there is a problem, with all the people that believe it all as 'ultimate truth' & all the people that don't. This is the very real issue with all this. Even within, let alone between the Worlds 7 major religions a lot of people don't agree with each other on interpretations. Humans have continually fought & killed each other over it all - combined with money / resources / politics / nationalism. i can go with Christ as a very powerful infinite Soul / Self & God realized Mystic / Mage whose message was how to become Self / God realized ('no one' agrees on who he was / what God is, what true Christianity is, what Christ taught & what the truth is of all these areas'), i also believe that there is a God / Spiritual Realms & Soul - i don't agree He was literally God. i don't agree with most of the Bible. i don't agree with Dualistic religions. i don't agree with the Christian spiritual Cosmology. i don't agree with the Christian view on Pagan / Magick / Shamanic areas, & their view on other religions. It all gets i feel into highly complex areas when discussing Good & Evil, Heavens & Hells, Angels & Demons, Devils & Gods, After Death Realities, Spiritual Cosmologies & Hierarchies, especially in relation to certain areas like severe mental illnesses. The Universal highest spiritual teachings of all the World religions & spiritual traditions i think are identical, that the light of God & spiritual realms is One light - regardless of the religion / belief system / tradition, that all life is Divine & Sacred.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jun 21, 2021 16:19:39 GMT
i suppose how i partly see it all - all the World Religions / spiritual traditions - what real good has it all done?
The World is on the Brink of Global Ecological / Civilizational Collapse.
They tried Global Christendom for close to 2 thousand years & i don't see much good in the history of it all. It is a catalogue of horrors.
The Abrahamic faiths could end up along with other factors ending complex human civilization.
|
|
|
Post by wynona on Jun 22, 2021 0:55:04 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jun 22, 2021 2:23:22 GMT
i suppose that not all of it is bad - Then there is this from that Wikipedia entry - Common criticisms of Christianity include oppression of women, condemnation of homosexuality, colonialism, and various other cases of violence. Christian ideas have been used both to support and end slavery as an institution. Criticism of Christianity has come from the different religious and non-religious groups around the world, some of whom were themselves Christians. i think that it can be swung any way that you like - Christianity also caused the destruction of the Ancient World, The Geocide of North & South American Indians, Slavery, Capitalism, The Burning times, it has played a major part in the Global War on Terror, & rise of the far right during WW2 & now again in the USA currently. Suppose for a minute that Christianity isn't true - it can be seen as a catalogue of Destruction - www.jesusneverexisted.com/Criticism of Christianity en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Christianityen.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Is_Not_Greati am a member of thousands of groups / pages on facebook from all perspectives - humans will never agree on certain areas. The only way to settle certain areas / arguments would be to have a complete picture of all that is & the whole of truth / reality. It would require a totally transformed humanity / collective consciousness, into some genuinely universally enlightened civilization / species, where all the arguments / divisions / questions were answered, where there was no longer any conflict / argument about all areas of life / wisdom. A compete harmony of all life. That of course may not be possible within a World / Universe that appears to be by it's very nature Dualistic. The Abrahamic faiths largely reflect that Duality by being Dualistic. The only way out of that i see is within a non dual state of Self realization. If the entire human species became genuinely Self Realized - if everyone was a Christ / Buddha. i don't really understand what a Christian is as Christianity / religions / spirituality can mean literally anything, you can interpret Christianity / the Bible - World religions & Holy books & spiritual systems in an infinite amount of ways. World religions / spirituality can be anything you want any of it to be, anyone can & does believe anything that they like about anything, hence part of the issue with the internet. Reality can be apprehended any way anyone likes. Humanity will never answer that argument about truth & reality, only if it is true that the truth is in the experience / state of Being of genuine Self / God realization - that everything is relative to the Absolute - & that it is only the realization of the Self as 'Atman / Brahman' in which there is a genuine answer to it all. But again 'no one' is going to agree about the reality of the non dual state of Self / God realization. i have been a member of hundreds of spirituality pages over the past 20 years - they have all descended into argument / division with the members. Very few people that use independent & critical thinking are now going to accept anyone or anything as the Authority on their own awareness, experience & apprehension of reality. The internet is bringing this to the fore - you can't dictate truth / reality to other people. Anyone can cross reference / check / look up any claim & find / make counter arguments.
|
|
|
Post by wynona on Jun 22, 2021 11:11:18 GMT
i suppose that not all of it is bad - Then there is this from that Wikipedia entry - Common criticisms of Christianity include oppression of women, condemnation of homosexuality, colonialism, and various other cases of violence. Christian ideas have been used both to support and end slavery as an institution. Criticism of Christianity has come from the different religious and non-religious groups around the world, some of whom were themselves Christians. i think that it can be swung any way that you like - Christianity also caused the destruction of the Ancient World, The Geocide of North & South American Indians, Slavery, Capitalism, The Burning times, it has played a major part in the Global War on Terror, & rise of the far right during WW2 & now again in the USA currently. Suppose for a minute that Christianity isn't true - it can be seen as a catalogue of Destruction - www.jesusneverexisted.com/Criticism of Christianity en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Christianityen.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Is_Not_Greati am a member of thousands of groups / pages on facebook from all perspectives - humans will never agree on certain areas. The only way to settle certain areas / arguments would be to have a complete picture of all that is & the whole of truth / reality. It would require a totally transformed humanity / collective consciousness, into some genuinely universally enlightened civilization / species, where all the arguments / divisions / questions were answered, where there was no longer any conflict / argument about all areas of life / wisdom. A compete harmony of all life. That of course may not be possible within a World / Universe that appears to be by it's very nature Dualistic. The Abrahamic faiths largely reflect that Duality by being Dualistic. The only way out of that i see is within a non dual state of Self realization. If the entire human species became genuinely Self Realized - if everyone was a Christ / Buddha. i don't really understand what a Christian is as Christianity / religions / spirituality can mean literally anything, you can interpret Christianity / the Bible - World religions & Holy books & spiritual systems in an infinite amount of ways. World religions / spirituality can be anything you want any of it to be, anyone can & does believe anything that they like about anything, hence part of the issue with the internet. Reality can be apprehended any way anyone likes. Humanity will never answer that argument about truth & reality, only if it is true that the truth is in the experience / state of Being of genuine Self / God realization - that everything is relative to the Absolute - & that it is only the realization of the Self as 'Atman / Brahman' in which there is a genuine answer to it all. But again 'no one' is going to agree about the reality of the non dual state of Self / God realization. i have been a member of hundreds of spirituality pages over the past 20 years - they have all descended into argument / division with the members. Very few people that use independent & critical thinking are now going to accept anyone or anything as the Authority on their own awareness, experience & apprehension of reality. The internet is bringing this to the fore - you can't dictate truth / reality to other people. Anyone can cross reference / check / look up any claim & find / make counter arguments. You have made a good point in that arguing does very little. Personally, I am wanting to move away from arguing for Christianity but instead demonstrating its power. Jesus and his disciples healed all manner of diseases, cast out demons, and performed miracles by faith. I want to do and have begun to do the same.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jun 22, 2021 12:01:14 GMT
You have made a good point in that arguing does very little. Personally, I am wanting to move away from arguing for Christianity but instead demonstrating its power. Jesus and his disciples healed all manner of diseases, cast out demons, and performed miracles by faith. I want to do and have begun to do the same. Highly debatable - i see very little actual scientific evidence for any forms of spiritual / energy healing, Christian or otherwise - & it is all the same stuff in essence. Having highly trained as a spiritual / energy healer for 20 years & having worked with all kinds of spiritual healers & groups & read a lot on it all, & been around a lot of Christians at different times trying what you have said on me - Good Luck with that! By all means become a Christian Healer. We are to me back to the question, as to who is genuinely Self / God realized - incidentally, from 40 years of study of all these areas from a comparative religious / spiritual perspective & what i have read of a lot of Enlightened spiritual masters they don't go anywhere near any of the healing traditions / modalities - they simply don't get involved in it all. A lot of religions / spiritual systems also now concede to modern medicine / science as the best way to treat medical problems. If certain areas concerning spiritual healing & spiritual realities are true, & certain spiritual cosmologies are true concerning the structures / make up of the spiritual realms / realities & the Beings that inhabit them all i would exercise a certain degree of caution & be very sure as to what you are dealing with, but it is entirely up to you what you think, believe & do.
|
|
|
Post by wynona on Jun 22, 2021 21:12:41 GMT
Yes, I am praying left and right for you and other people to be healed of all kinds of things. What manner of Christian healing are you speaking of? Im taught its not a matter of knowledge or something to be obtained mentally, but of child-like faith coming from the heart. Im not aware of any forseeable dangers from that.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jun 22, 2021 21:48:42 GMT
Sorry messed up quote
From an energy healing perspective i don't really see any fundamental differences within any of the World religious / spiritual / traditional healing traditions, it is all working with energies / spirits, it's just debated what the spirits / energies are / the spiritual & religious understandings & frameworks used / cosmologies & different rituals / approaches / modalities.
White / High Magick
Reiki
Shamanism
Esoteric psychology
Christian faith healing
Catholic exorcism
Spirit release areas
Inter life / past life deep hypnotic healing
Traditional Eastern healing modalities
Many others
The methods & frameworks vary greatly & some approaches are a lot more therapeutic & gentle than others but the principles are the same.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jun 22, 2021 22:20:50 GMT
Yes, I am praying left and right for you and other people to be healed of all kinds of things. What manner of Christian healing are you speaking of? Im taught its not a matter of knowledge or something to be obtained mentally, but of child-like faith coming from the heart. Im not aware of any forseeable dangers from that. In principle it is incredibly simple - channelling God / Source / Great Spirit & working with Avatars (Christ) guides / angels / spiritual forces to heal the individual. The ideal is Great - the Application / Reality can be entirely different. Certainly i have made progress - But me working for 20 years with spiritual healers & groups didn't cure me of what has been diagnosed as schizophrenia. Have you cured yourself of Bipolar? Go into a high secure psychiatric unit & an intensive care hospital unit & heal them all. Go out onto the streets & heal the disabled homeless drug addicts. On anther level to be a genuine Master healer, avatar. A very good book on energy healing - www.davidashworth.com/dancing.phpVery good site on energy healing / spirit release areas - www.spiritrelease.org/therapists.phpi think personally that we need integrated health & social care systems & the integration of the hard & soft sciences to properly address all these areas - integrated biomedical, psychological, social & spiritual areas. There are limitations to all religious / spiritual / traditional / alternative / complimentary healing areas - which is why we had the European Enlightenment / Scientific revolution & developed modern health & social care systems. i won't formally work with spiritual / alternative healers any more (of any kind) in relation to my condition - will only now work with properly / highly trained health professionals.
|
|
|
Post by wynona on Jun 22, 2021 23:54:02 GMT
Have you cured yourself of Bipolar? I think I have a lot of thoughts getting in the way of me even trying to heal myself. The main one being "how would I know?" since I currently feel no symptoms. Also, "I wouldn't risk going off meds anyway so what's the point?" I have not really tried. But I believe its possible! Go into a high secure psychiatric unit & an intensive care hospital unit & heal them all. Go out onto the streets & heal the disabled homeless drug addicts. With grace, I hope I can be a walking healing ministry. But I have to start somewhere. You said you've worked with spiritual healers for 20 years and still have schizophrenia. But that won't discourage me from trying to heal you. I will try. I don't have experience or a ton of knowledge. But with what I do have, Ill give my best.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jun 23, 2021 8:49:37 GMT
With grace, I hope I can be a walking healing ministry. But I have to start somewhere. You said you've worked with spiritual healers for 20 years and still have schizophrenia. But that won't discourage me from trying to heal you. I will try. I don't have experience or a ton of knowledge. But with what I do have, Ill give my best. You can't cure schizophrenia, especially with faith healing. Cure yourself of Bipolar first.
|
|
|
Post by wynona on Jun 23, 2021 16:35:03 GMT
With grace, I hope I can be a walking healing ministry. But I have to start somewhere. You said you've worked with spiritual healers for 20 years and still have schizophrenia. But that won't discourage me from trying to heal you. I will try. I don't have experience or a ton of knowledge. But with what I do have, Ill give my best. You can't cure schizophrenia, especially with faith healing. Cure yourself of Bipolar first. I am not using faith healing as you have described it. I am going for a childlike faith in the Lord Jesus. Just simply asking Him to heal you. And I think it'd be fitting for you to be healed before me. I understand science and medicine has not found a cure for schizophrenia. I am simply believing for your healing anyway.
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Jun 23, 2021 17:04:42 GMT
I am not using faith healing as you have described it. I am going for a childlike faith in the Lord Jesus. Just simply asking Him to heal you. And I think it'd be fitting for you to be healed before me. I understand science and medicine has not found a cure for schizophrenia. I am simply believing for your healing anyway. Thank you. i see no solution to my condition, it's the way i am, in large part i see it as an incurable brain condition; i see no religious / spiritual energy healing solution to it all, same as you wouldn't be able to grow someone's legs back etc - other than my own personal acceptance, non duality contemplative practice helping to ease the symptoms of it all along with medication & psychological / social support; in exactly the same way that you approach your own mental illness with medical / social support. Think i should have been / should be better treated for the condition by wider society & the system - But won't be. Am non religious in the sense of not following / believing any religion / 'Holy' book - But by all means do whatever you like if you think it helps. If i was a Christian i would be fighting / campaigning for a fairer society & better treatment of all health & social issues - as i think that is what Christ tried to do. & is what i have done / do anyway - regardless of not being a adherent / member of organized religion. i don't see what is Christ like about most Christians & the past 2 thousand years of the organized Christian religion? But we have had this debate / argument before (for 20 years). & it will make no difference to what anyone else believes.
|
|