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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 16:28:01 GMT
Yes I think that there seems to be confusion around the term 'holistic'. If you want to work towards something, you need a concrete definition of what it is you are working towards. Most people when you mention the word 'holistic' are not sure what it means. I did a talk on how I perceived it last year, but ultimately there are aspects of a person's wellbeing that would likely be overlooked if the approaches suggested in these strategies were implemented. Is unlikely they will be, however, and the current situation is a good excuse to bypass them. Yes - to a lot of people holistic means homeopathy, some herbs, aquapuncture & some hippies. To me it means a whole person / whole view of reality - mind, body, soul, spirit & environment - integrating all areas of biology, psychology, sociology & spirituality. However as within other threads / discussions - add in the highly individual natures of who people are & everyone having different opinions / World views - the whole areas of religions etc - it gets very messy as to how we can approach a unified definition of what holistic actually means. The biomedical scientific 'materialist' camp will also just simply state that there is no real evidence for any of it. Yes I think the general assumption was that it's about alternative therapies, spirituality and being anti medication, within the realms of mental health.
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Post by Admin on Jul 5, 2020 16:29:09 GMT
Yes I think that there seems to be confusion around the term 'holistic'. If you want to work towards something, you need a concrete definition of what it is you are working towards. Most people when you mention the word 'holistic' are not sure what it means. I did a talk on how I perceived it last year, but ultimately there are aspects of a person's wellbeing that would likely be overlooked if the approaches suggested in these strategies were implemented. Is unlikely they will be, however, and the current situation is a good excuse to bypass them. Yes - to a lot of people holistic means homeopathy, some herbs, aquapuncture & some hippies. To me it means a whole person / whole view of reality - mind, body, soul, spirit & environment - integrating all areas of biology, psychology, sociology & spirituality. However as within other threads / discussions - add in the highly individual natures of who people are & everyone having different opinions / World views - the whole areas of religions etc - it gets very messy as to how we can approach a unified definition of what holistic actually means. The biomedical scientific 'materialist' camp will also just simply state that there is no real evidence for any of it. The problems with a holistic model are also numerous. Bring in anything other than it all being a problem with the individual & their brain - cite that environment is just as much a factor & it brings in major issues with blame & personal responsibilities. Something that seems to happens as well with the holistic is a denial of the severity of mental illness / symptoms, & denial of biological areas. i think it's also a mine field as well, as we discussed in the other thread, that as soon as you acknowledge the spiritual as having a reality it opens the door for every religion / sect / denomination / spiritual system / belief system & alternative World view as having a validity - & how do we separate it all out? As to what is & isn't valid & true?
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Post by Admin on Jul 5, 2020 16:31:06 GMT
Yes I think the general assumption was that it's about alternative therapies, spirituality and being anti medication, within the realms of mental health. The problem is that for a lot of people alternative therapies, spirituality and being anti medication, within the realms of mental health, can be more of a mine field than current mental health services.
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Post by Admin on Jul 5, 2020 16:35:49 GMT
Something that seems to happens as well with the holistic is a denial of the severity of mental illness / symptoms, & denial of biological areas. i think it's also a mine field as well, as we discussed in the other thread, that as soon as you acknowledge the spiritual as having a reality it opens the door for every religion / sect / denomination / spiritual system / belief system & alternative World view as having a validity - & how do we separate it all out? As to what is & isn't valid & true? It's also another excuse to shut down / close / withdraw funding from mainstream mental health services.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 16:38:46 GMT
Yes I think the general assumption was that it's about alternative therapies, spirituality and being anti medication, within the realms of mental health. The problem is that for a lot of people alternative therapies, spirituality and being anti medication, within the realms of mental health, can be more of a mine field than current mental health services. I think that is why people are intrigued but sceptical about what good could come from anything that resembles a holistic model for mental health services. They are not entirely sure what it is but they also seem to assume that's what it is about.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 16:41:42 GMT
Something that seems to happens as well with the holistic is a denial of the severity of mental illness / symptoms, & denial of biological areas. i think it's also a mine field as well, as we discussed in the other thread, that as soon as you acknowledge the spiritual as having a reality it opens the door for every religion / sect / denomination / spiritual system / belief system & alternative World view as having a validity - & how do we separate it all out? As to what is & isn't valid & true? It's also another excuse to shut down / close / withdraw funding from mainstream mental health services. I don't really think that governments need much of an excuse to withdraw funding. Mental health is not really seen as an issue by most people in society, so withdrawing funding isn't either. Even the NHS, which turns 72 today, apparently, is not really the concern many make it out to be. Otherwise, there would be more fuss at the creeping and impending privatisation of it.
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Post by Bodhitree on Jul 5, 2020 16:48:28 GMT
Certainly at the moment it’s interesting what will happen with the economic aftermath of coronavirus. It’s going to have some pretty severe knock on effects if the early signs are to be believed.
But I haven’t seen many people talking about holistic models for mental health over the past few years. The efforts that are there seem to be very limited, the funding is all going to the mainstream, the number of beds are being cut, instead there are more local teams for looking after people in the home, and the focus is all on cutting costs while maintaining control.
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Post by Bodhitree on Jul 5, 2020 17:00:51 GMT
But in terms of holistic models it’s not totally dead. There is a yearly Crazywise conference, and an ISPS (social psychology and alternative approaches) and both of these are getting some mainstream press coverage here from time to time. Sean Blackwell is still plugging away on his Bipolar-or-Waking-Up YouTube channel. There are a few academics here like Wouter Kusters who sometimes write books in this area.
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Post by Admin on Jul 5, 2020 17:13:20 GMT
I think that is why people are intrigued but sceptical about what good could come from anything that resembles a holistic model for mental health services. They are not entirely sure what it is but they also seem to assume that's what it is about. i think it's the right direction to go in with everything - however given the current socioeconomic / political / cultural / medical / scientific realities - i think that we're another 200 years off a genuinely comprehensive holistic model & approach being standard. It would need to be done in a genuinely integrated & unified way - this issue of current division / fragmentation of everything i think is a major issue.
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Post by Admin on Jul 5, 2020 18:23:06 GMT
I don't really think that governments need much of an excuse to withdraw funding. Mental health is not really seen as an issue by most people in society, so withdrawing funding isn't either. Even the NHS, which turns 72 today, apparently, is not really the concern many make it out to be. Otherwise, there would be more fuss at the creeping and impending privatisation of it. It's frightening.
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Post by snowstorm on Jul 5, 2020 20:48:59 GMT
@blueberry, great writing about SMI and health inequalities, good to read this subject tackled in depth.
It seems very convenient that Public Health England can claim the reasons for poorer health 'are not yet fully understood'.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2020 20:55:37 GMT
@blueberry, great writing about SMI and health inequalities, good to read this subject tackled in depth. It seems very convenient that Public Health England can claim the reasons for poorer health 'are not yet fully understood'. Thank you. What I find interesting is thei lack of evidence for their statement that work is good for mental health. No links or research article to back that up. I say prove it.. bet they can't, especially for people with SMI. Is based on their ideology and not evidenced research.
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Post by Admin on Jul 5, 2020 20:57:31 GMT
It seems very convenient that Public Health England can claim the reasons for poorer health 'are not yet fully understood' We've not really moved on from Charles Dickens & Victorian Times, in certain ways i think things are worse.
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Post by naominash3 on Jul 6, 2020 1:20:29 GMT
I indirectly encouraged a preteen girl to fish. Her Dad learned all the surf fishing secrets from me. A Pentecostal minister Dad.
Then the girl just took off fishing as we caught the most fish I've seen all season.
And my heart got so soft, you could've crushed it like sand underfoot.
Fish, girl, fish.
Enjoy your memories for me
As I relive mine
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2020 4:59:31 GMT
Enjoy your memories for me As I relive mine I find it best not to live in the past, sadly I do too much of it. Memories can be a real pain. Hope yours are more happy. xx
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