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Post by Admin on Oct 31, 2015 13:48:29 GMT
.......as if curing the physical symptoms would also cure the mental ones. How far we've progressed....... :-)
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Post by snowstorm on Oct 31, 2015 20:06:28 GMT
Yes, indeed. Don't think we've come too far from the 'bloodletting' either. When I was in hospital, a minion was forever asking to 'take my bloods.' In the end, I just refused.
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Post by sishellen on Nov 1, 2015 20:54:02 GMT
There is a lot of conjecture in the genetic argument for sz. It is curious that people who have it are less likely to have children but the prevalence in the population remains at about 1%. Maybe it means that more environmental factors are at play? Very interesting case with Nazi Germany as well - they killed all their mentally ill with the T4 Eugenics Program, which lead to the systematic extermination of the Jews & other groups of 'undesirables' - It didn't change the subsequent incidence of schizophrenia in the population. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_T4There are various theories to try & explain this paradox. Dr. Joseph Polimeni's work is interesting - www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJN3D8UhtGQ
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Post by sishellen on Nov 1, 2015 21:17:56 GMT
Very interesting. Joseph Polimeni explains how humans have normalized behaviors fit for their desired outcomes of societal conformity, and banned behaviors not serving those prospects. Could we say that shamanism is closer to the aim of transpersonal psychology than the third force psychology?
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Post by snowstorm on Nov 2, 2015 11:32:34 GMT
Well, just having a read around, it seems to be a sliding scale. First, you have 'third force' or humanistic psychology, with its emphasis on developing human potential and self actualisation. Then transpersonal psychology goes the extra mile with all theses different issues 'is there life after death', 'what is enlightenment.'
Then we have shamanism, it's a practice, connected with healing and caring for the environment as well, based on a more historical collected wisdom than the other two evidence based approaches.
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Post by Admin on Nov 2, 2015 12:10:55 GMT
Very interesting. Joseph Polimeni explains how humans have normalized behaviors fit for their desired outcomes of societal conformity, and banned behaviors not serving those prospects. Could we say that shamanism is closer to the aim of transpersonal psychology than the third force psychology? Hi - i think that language is a great barrier in all this area. Yes, i do think shamanism is more in line with transpersonal psychology. The only way that i have found of 'squaring' everything is to take a genuinely integral/holistic view - Biological/Psychological/Social/Spiritual. Mind/Body/Soul/Spirit. Spirit Soul/Psyche Physical To my own mind that is at least a model into which everything can fit & make some kind of sense.
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Post by sishellen on Nov 6, 2015 6:52:31 GMT
"shamanism is more in line with transpersonal psychology" and they are both aiming at Gnosis (with the element of inspiration), instead of squares categories of what we term "person" (limited by the language barrier) in behaviorism and psychoanalysis. "Transpersonal" leaves space for the unknown. The same phenomenon with all todays science -ists, going back to ancient wisdom trying to postulate theories in order to understand that ancient wisdom with mysterious origins...
Its also very inspiring to see you separate soul (do you think its more of the heart?) from spirit (more of the mind?. No wonder the hindus theorized of the chakras, to explore the human as a whole. These concepts are so vague - only through inspiration truth can come forth. Here is an example even in mathematics: " Pythagoras developed a modern theory of vision much simpler than that of Plato. This theory maintained that light is emitted from luminous bodies, can suffer reflections, and causes the sensation of sight when it enters the eyes. He was the first Greek to realize that the morning star and evening star were both the planet Venus Pythagoras postulated that the Earth was spherical, and added more crystalline spheres to Anaximander's model, one for each planet, to account for the motions of the various planets.
In keeping with the assumed magical properties of the number ten, some of the Pythagoreans, led by Philolaus, added a tenth "wanderer" and proposed that there existed a counter-earth which, together with the earth and other "planets," orbited a central fire. Pythagoras believed that the planets produced sounds while tracing out their orbits, producing the "harmony of the spheres." While much of their studies were sheer mysticism, the Pythagoreans were the first to mathematicize the universe....." Perhaps it was hallucinations that let Pythagora to greater Gnosis of unknown(?)source..Apollo?
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Post by Admin on Nov 6, 2015 8:11:51 GMT
Its also very inspiring to see you separate soul (do you think its more of the heart?) from spirit (more of the mind?. It's difficult to try & explain my cosmology, & i don't think it can be properly explained in words/form, other than symbol. i see spirit as being primary - with spiritual realms/realities - then the incarnated/created Worlds of which the Soul enters into - then the physical/human body. i don't see spirit as mind. i see spirit contains soul - soul contains body. i see different levels of mind - egoic/lower mind & higher levels of mind. But to me there are many levels beyond the mind, in the sense that 'we' understand mind from a human perspective.
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Post by sishellen on Nov 9, 2015 14:36:59 GMT
Its also very inspiring to see you separate soul (do you think its more of the heart?) from spirit (more of the mind?. It's difficult to try & explain my cosmology, & i don't think it can be properly explained in words/form, other than symbol. i see spirit as being primary - with spiritual realms/realities - then the incarnated/created Worlds of which the Soul enters into - then the physical/human body. i don't see spirit as mind. i see spirit contains soul - soul contains body. i see different levels of mind - egoic/lower mind & higher levels of mind. But to me there are many levels beyond the mind, in the sense that 'we' understand mind from a human perspective.
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Post by sishellen on Nov 9, 2015 16:05:30 GMT
sounds like you re channeling - your perspective reminds me of the hindu cosmology, reincarnation theories, on nature of the mind and soul etc. / raja yoga considers mental illness an imbalance of the odic and actinic forces, and each could be passive or aggressive. It talks about a mind fiber that turns in upon itself and tunes into the substance of actinic force- the personal actinic ray, different in vibration for each individual - as a way to balance (in meditation or self enquiry)... Seems like a difficult passage even for a balanced individual, to confront past experiences (in meditation) that rise all at once from the unconscious (from even past lives - not in linear time) and still be able to stay tuned to one's own individual vibration. Do you think fear of ones own unknown psychic realms is an obstacle to healing for most people?
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Post by Admin on Nov 10, 2015 1:49:00 GMT
sounds like you re channeling - your perspective reminds me of the hindu cosmology, reincarnation theories, on nature of the mind and soul etc. / raja yoga considers mental illness an imbalance of the odic and actinic forces, and each could be passive or aggressive. It talks about a mind fiber that turns in upon itself and tunes into the substance of actinic force- the personal actinic ray, different in vibration for each individual - as a way to balance (in meditation or self enquiry)... Yes. impossible to look into & study everything, but what i have found is that many ancient & modern writings seem to be explaining & pointing to very similar things. Do you practise Hinduism? There are aspects of it i like, also things i disagree with - i don't personally follow any religion, but have looked a lot into comparative religion (especially the mystical/esoteric traditions), mythology & other areas. Yes - i think that there is a great fear & ignorance of the psyche & altered/non-ordinary states - the mysterious & unknown. i don't think that a genuine spiritual path is for the faint of heart. Mental health also adds in a lot of potential difficulties, but i do personally see a spiritual aspect to a lot of mental health conditions/experiences. i think that there are a lot of unanswered questions in this field, & it's very difficult within the transpersonal/spiritual crisis areas to separate out clearly what is pathology. i suppose each person is on their own journey & path, & 'needs' to do what is right for them. Fear is a major obstacle, but also a learning tool. We seem to be living in a very spiritually dark & materialistic Age - Scientific materialism dominates. Maybe some things are slowly changing? i have a very gentle, simple & basic meditation/contemplation practise, which suits me - i wouldn't practise anything more in depth & have been taking a step back from a lot of things recently & focusing on as simple a following of my own path as is possible. There is enough material to be working on with my own current practises, life & circumstances, & am content with progress & direction. Being centred & grounded within our own Being is important. i'd be interested in your own feelings & thoughts on all these areas.
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Post by sishellen on Nov 10, 2015 10:44:02 GMT
Hi - thank you for your interest,
I dont practice hinduism, I study it because it seems to me its exceptional in human psychoanalysis and in knowledge of the body in a holistic approach. I, like you, am spiritual but not religious, but was baptized an orthodox christian. I have studied yoga alot and have high respect for the tradition and practice, but am not a fan of meditation since I lack discipline. I can achieve the meditational state fairly easy, but I am more of the action path (karma). Yes, I agree each one of us has a different and unique path. Here is smg interesting, the word “unkn-own”, could it be that the unknown is our own ?
I too think determining the pathology of mental conditions is elusive and will always be, since we lack the scientific/spiritual comprehension. It seems in the current field of psychiatry, diagnosis is still trying to fit behaviors in squared categories, when nature doesnt behave that way. We cannot comprehend the randomness factor and since mental health is so personal and the individual itself may not have the information needed (lack of memory, erased memories etc.)and there is lack of real therapists, doctors. We also grow up trained to fear death, the unknown, the darkness, and this blocks people from investigating in the own psych, like the unconscious is an abyss of terror. I dont believe that it is, but it could be, since thoughtform projection is basically what we experience in life imo, and that is why education is so major. Ignorance and fear maybe essential in a way - that is how I understand the reason why there are certain disciples (yama and niyama) in yoga as a preparation to the real practices, in order to be safe processing existing mental issues. Yes... a genuine spiritual path is NOT for the faint of heart. And real life as well...to be your own person. Someone has to fight against a massive hypnotism and then find the space that will allow them maybe to take a few real breaths before the final one, that is how I see the life of an "awakened" person. I do not know if the masses are hypnotized by accident - I dont know if there is truth in the conspiracy theories, but I think that humans (me included) are infantile and do not know how to grasp meaning otherwise than materialistic sensation, giving way to egoic motives.
The condition of the world could be the outcome that experimentation has brought about in attempt to find real meaning? Maybe that is what we are here for. Some of us go through life in a hypnosis and never wake up and there is also the other extreme...and maybe its all normal.
Taking one step at a time is wise. I think once you are on the path that feels better then things can only get better.
Do you think there is an end to the struggles for mental health or health in general? Is there a turning point where you know the real ugly stuff is over, and from then on it gets easier?
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Post by Admin on Nov 10, 2015 11:28:46 GMT
Yes, I agree each one of us has a different and unique path. Here is smg interesting, the word “unkn-own”, could it be that the unknown is our own ? A lot of spiritual practise does seem to focus on self knowledge, realisation, individuation, acceptance - etc. Our individual truth, Being, knowledge & wisdom. Yes, & lies that are comforting a lot of people find preferable to truth. It is said in some writings that the entire incarnational path is comparable to the baby stage of development in the life of the Soul. i've read/researched a lot on alternative/conspiracy/alien etc areas - Who knows with it all? Proof & evidence is severely lacking from a lot of these areas. Maybe there is some orchestrated Agenda - maybe there isn't. From a broader existential view then yes - everything is life & part of the whole range of human experience. Douglas Adams in his Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy series posits that the earth is a 10 million year long organic computer program to work out the question to the answer of the meaning of life - made by pan dimensional Beings. www.youtube.com/watch?v=aboZctrHfK8 Yes, in many ways i try to keep things/make things as simple as possible. i do believe & always have done that there is a potential for a profound healing & transformation. Feel it is again a very individual journey. i went through 4 forced hospitalisation & forced drugs, 7 major breakdowns/episodes totalling around 8 years in severe florid psychosis. A serious suicide attempt, 17 years in heavy addiction/alcoholism & all manor of difficulties. Some have it worse. i have made a lot of progress & past is past - No changing it all. Things have been a lot more stable the past 11 years, but Not without problems, there are a catalogue of personal & difficult circumstances. One of my challenges is that i have always considered that i have needed the right kind of comprehensive help, support & understanding to more fully resolve certain things - But that has eluded me for over 30 years, & i don't think that i'll ever find it - i'm likely looking for some ideal that doesn't exist. From the POV of life, on certain 'levels', being predominantly about growth, learning & experience - then i think that there is very fertile ground within everything overall. i have 'glimpses' of something far better - i do feel that there is a potential for far deeper resolution & acceptance of things & the potential for inner & outer transformation (personal & collective/Global) - If/how that manifests is another question - & a human lifetime is in ways very limited - especially in relative time frame.
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Post by sishellen on Nov 10, 2015 17:58:42 GMT
That was the funniest part in the movie, I watched it so many years ago, I am glad you sent that... ha, ha, 42.... Yes I believe that extraterrestrial intelligence is involved in the history of earth, and all major religions talk about the giants, it is fascinating to think of humans having these origins. I think there is truth in mythology even more so than in history, and that could be considered a mental problem for many I know! But you ve been through a lot, and besides being forced into hospital you were forced to search so much. I can relate, even though I have never been in that situation, I was punished and almost ruined for not accepting narcissistic exploitation for love, pretending all is ok, still in a difficult one but like that -the real ugly part has passed and I ve accepted, having strength instead of sensitivity (weakness for some) that lead to victimization. Its taken me about 10 yrs to feel better and to put my life back together and to understand my life, but I am so glad I went through this for I wouldnt have an idea what is really going on in me..These issues are lifetime issues – they don’t start and end in a decade but they reach a peak and a transformation as I understand it(?)
You are so right- it's so much more convenient to believe the lies, and be one too. Transformation could happen suddenly and its an esoteric thing, may not be obvious . I have been able to shake off a couple of addictions and that has given me so much strength it was worth the trouble.
Of course there is fertile ground in everything - the desired outcome probably has to match the combining forces that create it though... Keep the dream alive, I think its really worth it. There are very many types of healing and we havent explored all, not even close. The open mind is easier to heal, because it can expand. On the contrary if you want a mind to get sick, restrain it and there you have it. I am at the point where I want to feel as a child, I want to have the drive to discover everything again and to love life, simply that. I think I am on this path
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Post by Admin on Nov 11, 2015 9:35:56 GMT
Yes I believe that extraterrestrial intelligence is involved in the history of earth, and all major religions talk about the giants, it is fascinating to think of humans having these origins. I think there is truth in mythology even more so than in history Mythology, Aliens, & other areas are very interesting to look into. There is a lot of Mystery in Life. With certain things i think it can be a lifetime(s) of working on the same stuff. Sometimes i think that there can be a sudden shift/transformation, yes. It is good to be open minded - to have a wonder for life & to retain a willingness to learn. There is so much that we don't know.
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